Does Chris spec any CSM if using vinylester resin?

 

Forgive my noobness, whats CSM?

 

chopped strand mat

 

What is the 1/2” core for ?

 

Probably easier to build it off the deck then off a flatbed trailer...more stable.

 

Will be following along and help where I can. Also, I have a ‘73 and ‘74 F-100 that I may be willing to part with!😉

 

Hah, maybe that trailer is a good idea

 

For Poly, Chris specs 1.5oz csm prior to layers of 10oz cloth. I am no expert but the way I understand it is that poly (and some vinylester) resins do not have the physical properties to bond substantially enough to core without csm. Csm is comprised of fiberglass strands going in infinite directions all bonded together with a binder that breaks down when MEKP is introduced. The Csm helps bond your next layers to your core.

I used an epoxy based vinylester for some parts of my skiff without using csm as a base layer and did not have any issues with lamination but I only did this when my base layers were 1208 biax which has a 3/4oz csm stitching.

 

For Poly, Chris specs 1.5oz csm prior to layers of 10oz cloth. I am no expert but the way I understand it is that poly (and some vinylester) resins do not have the physical properties to bond substantially enough to core without csm. Csm is comprised of fiberglass strands going in infinite directions all bonded together with a binder that breaks down when MEKP is introduced. The Csm helps bond your next layers to your core.

I used an epoxy based vinylester for some parts of my skiff without using csm as a base layer and did not have any issues with lamination but I only did this when my base layers were 1208 biax which has a 3/4oz csm stitching.

Josh,

I cannot substantiate what you said is true or not but it does make sense and I am not a scientist.

With that said, my skiff has been sitting out in the sun, ice, snow blazing hot sun for 20+ years and was made completely with cloth over foam and no csm anywhere and not a hint of coming apart. This is on my duck boat and it has not been pampered.

I think the act of bonding may have more to do with the actual size and shape of the pits in the foam. Another issue I have seen is people lay down the glass and wet it out only to have the resin soak into the pits leaving the cloth dry. They need to wet the foam out, lay down the glass and then wet out again.

This is based on personal experience and not from a labratory.

 

@SWFL_Gheenoe im doing the same thing just a few months ahead of you. Shelter, poly, and beryllium. Follow my IG alexhowell-beryllium-17.5. Give me a call if you have questions -843-260-9780. As I’ve told a few people, give @jglidden a call for cnc. It will dave you a lot of time and frustration for the stations.

 

Following **** good luck with the build. If your mildly handy you should be fine. Plenty of guys on here and IG willing to help and answer questions.

 

Plans have been purchased.
Going to try and get to Home Depot today to start building the foundation for my back yard. Thinking a slightly raised 8'x24' "deck" should do, and allow for a shelter to be placed overtop of it, and able to work around the boat without falling off.
Next step will be building the strongback - Ill take any suggestions on materials and methods used!

 

Like @VANMflyfishing suggested, contact @jglidden about his precut stations. To me, it would be worth it. MDF is crazy heavy picking it up at a big box store.

 

Yep already in touch with him! I reached out to a local friend to see if he could run it, but his CNC is too small.

 

Deck is done! Will be searching the internet tonight for a good shelter to cover this bad boy up...

 

Shelter has been bought - Went with a 28'x12' setup, fingers crossed that it lasts long enough to use it as a boathouse afterwards! Should be here beginning of March.

I will be getting CNC station work done by @jglidden, starting to get ducks in a row to acquire materials over the next few weeks so I can go guns blazing when I pickup the stations.
92% sure I will do the rounded transom, and no tunnel on this one... Could always add one later right?!

I have thought more about the vinylester/epoxy choice, I think epoxy might actually be right for me just due to the cost that I will be putting into the boat, and it being a relatively negligible increase - fortunately still have time to debate this one. Will buy materials once I get the hull laid out.

Also thinking I will go with all 3/4" carboncore, jglidden said he can adjust the stations to work with that dimension where 1/2" was planned. - planning on getting 10 sheets for the first run.

Objections so far?

 

For the amount of foam, I ended up using 12 and a half sheets to finish my 17’ beryllium . I have some left over small pieces but nothing really large.

 

Call Carbon-Core now as I know they were backordered.
Start stocking up on latex/nitrile gloves now (if you can find some)
Double glove when spreading resin so it easier to put on a fresh glove
Don't let your A.D.D. kick in while mixing resin and hardener
Use actual tongue depressors and not popsicle sticks from Hobby Lobby to mix your resin

I'm sure I'll remember more things I learned the hard way after I post this

 

Call Carbon-Core now as I know they were backordered.
Start stocking up on latex/nitrile gloves now (if you can find some)
Double glove when spreading resin so it easier to put on a fresh glove
Don't let your A.D.D. kick in while mixing resin and hardener
Use actual tongue depressors and not popsicle sticks from Hobby Lobby to mix your resin

I'm sure I'll remember more things I learned the hard way after I post this

Will do, I talked to Jesus at Fiberglass Discount Store and he said he had 3/4" in stock. Im thinking 10 sheets is a good start, but with you saying theyre backordered, would 12 be a better idea?
Also did a bulk purchase of sandpaper, gloves and chip brushes on Amazon last night. Im sure I will need more.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

Sounds good. Epoxy is pretty straight forward as it is mixed by volume. But that volume is very critical. If it is two parts resin to one part hardener, then that must be adhered to as closely as possible. I know some people are comfortable with the pump system, but I like measuring mine out. I've been using US Composites epoxy with the slow hardener. It gives me plenty of working time and I have had zero blushing to cleanup. I taped my stations off with blue tape (not sure what brand) and it stuck in some places. In fact, an entire station came with the hull when I lifted it off. I had much better success with clear packing tape. There aren't many tools you need at this point , but if you don't have an oscillating saw, at some point you will want to get one. Super handy. Also I have a really cheap mini belt sander that I have used the snot out of.

 

I had much better success with clear packing tape.

And give it a quick coat of wax before you start.

 

I like mini rollers instead of chip brushes for spreading and evening out resin. And always roll a good fiberglass roller over it after to eliminate any air bubbles. If going with epoxy, buy a few gallons of white vinegar. It cleans up wet epoxy, but isn't as volatile as acetone.

10 to start is ok, as long as the drive to pick up more isn't to far.

 

I like mini rollers instead of chip brushes for spreading and evening out resin. And always roll a good fiberglass roller over it after to eliminate any air bubbles. If going with epoxy, buy a few gallons of white vinegar. It cleans up wet epoxy, but isn't as volatile as acetone.

10 to start is ok, as long as the drive to pick up more isn't to far.

Will also invest in mini rollers Any recommendations for a quality glass roller? Theres a few on Amazon for less than 10 bucks, but im not sure what the difference in quality would be...

 

The cheap ones will do on for a bit, but stay away from the ones with plastic rollers. They don't play well with acetone. For the large flat areas a bigger radius is nice, but you'll need a 3/8" or so for tight corners.

 

And don't be afraid to get in there with your hands (gloves on ) and press down, move around glass etc.

 

10 should be fine. Disclaimer: I'm not building a CM design to know for sure how much you need.

However, I just browsed over my (Money Pit) Spreadsheet of what I've purchased for my restore so far and found some other things you may need/want... mixing cups, squeegees, q cells, cabosil, whatever glass CM recommends, sharp scissors, router with some flush cutting bits, plywood (templates), clamps, shop vac filters (get a cyclone attachment too), tyvek suits, goggles, bug spray (mosquitoes swarm epoxy)

 

Also picked up a Bosch sander with a vac attachement, and will buy myself a cyclone attachment since ive only heard great things about them. Didnt know about the bug spray! I dig it... Thank you

I started with 10 sheets on my Conchfish, and ended up having to buy one more to double the core in the deck. My skiff is smaller than yours will be, so I'd go ahead at get at least 12. Although like @firecat1981 said, it's not as big of a deal if you can get it locally. Shipping is expensive on the big sheets and you only want to pay it once. You can always make something cool from the leftovers too -- I plan to do a carbon casting platform with mine. Also, keep the sheets out of the light if you can. UV degrades PVC, although I don't know to what extent with the foam. I know it will change the color some, which is enough for me to not want to risk it. Better to be safe than sorry.

One tip I found for mixing resin was solo cups and 5qt bucket liners. For example, right now I'm using 3:1 medium epoxy. To make a batch for a layup, I'll fill 3 cups up to the same line with resin, and another cup up to the same line with hardener. I use "paint mixing sticks" that looks like tongue depressors to scrape the cups as well as possible, and I mix it all in a 5qt bucket with a liner with a large paint stick -- use the end with the rounded corners so it doesn't puncture the liner. I like to use spreaders, but have had luck with small paint rollers too. Always follow up with the finned roller, and look back after you're done to find new bubbles, or ones you've missed.

Another tip -- when running fillets or rounding over edges (pre-glass), go with a larger radius than you think you need. 90% of the air bubbles I had were in corners.

In the event I dont get to glass my hull before getting back to real work, do you think the foam will be "ok" with being covered inside the shelter? No real concern about water absorbing if I let it air out for a few days before beginning the glass?

Also saw that a spoon works well for fillet radii? Or even bigger than that?

 

I started with 10 sheets on my Conchfish, and ended up having to buy one more to double the core in the deck. My skiff is smaller than yours will be, so I'd go ahead at get at least 12. Although like @firecat1981 said, it's not as big of a deal if you can get it locally. Shipping is expensive on the big sheets and you only want to pay it once. You can always make something cool from the leftovers too -- I plan to do a carbon casting platform with mine. Also, keep the sheets out of the light if you can. UV degrades PVC, although I don't know to what extent with the foam. I know it will change the color some, which is enough for me to not want to risk it. Better to be safe than sorry.

One tip I found for mixing resin was solo cups and 5qt bucket liners. For example, right now I'm using 3:1 medium epoxy. To make a batch for a layup, I'll fill 3 cups up to the same line with resin, and another cup up to the same line with hardener. I use "paint mixing sticks" that looks like tongue depressors to scrape the cups as well as possible, and I mix it all in a 5qt bucket with a liner with a large paint stick -- use the end with the rounded corners so it doesn't puncture the liner. I like to use spreaders, but have had luck with small paint rollers too. Always follow up with the finned roller, and look back after you're done to find new bubbles, or ones you've missed.

Another tip -- when running fillets or rounding over edges (pre-glass), go with a larger radius than you think you need. 90% of the air bubbles I had were in corners.

 

Another helpful hint from Heloise. I use the small foam rollers a lot when glassing. Just the action of rolling the resin out will aerate the resin itself. I take a heat gun and just pass it over the surface and the bubbles instantly go away.

 

Also store the foam where it won’t get bumped into. It is incredibly fragile. Bump into it with a board or something and it will leave a big gouge.

 

The little tips on this build thread are priceless!

 

I spray my rollers with silicone spray before using and they don't hold nearly as much resin.

Yard Guard will be your friend for bug spray.

 

How did you guys get the plans? I will most likely start my build in early 2022, I have subscribed to many of you on IG and watching on here.

 

You buy the plans from Chris himself.

Sorry my build has been put on pause, awaiting the call to get back to work and dont want to leave a boat that I just started! I have a majority of my materials lined up and ready to roll, really just need to get the CNC stations and carbon core to get the ball rolling.

 

Was this build ever re-started?