[skinny_fishing]

A two stroke is going to give you the most HP and torque for the weight, you could probably put a 5 or more HP two stroke on it with no problems since they are so light, if you're going to be fighting a current that's probably your best option other than getting a bigger boat with a bigger motor.

 

[orey10m]

let's just take this in a new direction...I've posted a video showing my boat moving upstream with my old 55lb thrust motor on it on a VERY slow river. Please view it at the link below if you're interested.

55lb thrust, 12ft Square back Old Town Canoe

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This river was running MUCH slower than the one I want to be on. What size HP do people think I need to have to move upstream against a stronger current? How do I portray how strong the current of the other river is? Does cu fps make sense?...if so, I'd like to be on the river when its running about 500-700cu fps.

 

[mt hwy]

2 or 4 stroke gas - the ones mentioned are surprisingly light with a good power/weight ratio. Electric add the battery - I’m not familiar with the newer electric outboards. But an 80 lb thrust TM could use a Dakota 24 volt lithium at 25 lbs.

Going upriver fast enough, even with the flat transom they still call that a rowing hull, wonder how it will do catching a tongue of current - if that’s your conditions.

 

[orey10m]

2 or 4 stroke gas - the ones mentioned are surprisingly light with a good power/weight ratio. Electric add the battery - I’m not familiar with the newer electric outboards. But an 80 lb thrust TM could use a Dakota 24 volt lithium at 25 lbs.

Going upriver fast enough, even with the flat transom they still call that a rowing hull, wonder how it will do catching a tongue of current - if that’s your conditions.

Yeah are you suggesting it won't cut through the currents/waves well, and maybe get tippy?

 

[mt hwy]

You have to get the bow up at some point - try cutting a strong eddy line in a canoe. A rowing hull/canoe won’t do what a planing hull can, and vice versa

 

[Hank]

From your questions, it appears you don’t have much boating experience to rely on. Your boat is really only suitable for nearly flat water as you show in your video. A small gas motor that is within the rating of your boat is going to be less than half the weight of an electric set up and can run a long time on one tank of fuel.

 

[orey10m]

Alright thanks for the input.
I do have plenty of boating experience. Been on boats and driving them all my life, but mainly much larger boats than this. I agree I'm realizing I don't have the experience in this river and in this boat to know if this will work without just trying it. (Which sounds like an expensive proposition...buy an electric or gas 3hp and go out and try it..if it doesn't take me up stream at a satisfactory speed, sucks for me. Going through the return process wouldn't be practical at that point given how much shipping charges are. So I'd sell the motor on the used market and take a loss.)

 

[orey10m]

From your questions, it appears you don’t have much boating experience to rely on. Your boat is really only suitable for nearly flat water as you show in your video. A small gas motor that is within the rating of your boat is going to be less than half the weight of an electric set up and can run a long time on one tank of fuel.

So if I got a small gas motor, where does that put me for navigation while fishing? I can't use a gas motor like a trolling motor for micro adjustments while floating down the river. So I've still got to have a heavy lead battery on the boat for a trolling motor.
Maybe not as heavy as the 36-48v ones required for these electric outboards, but still.


Part of the promise of these electric outboards for me is after I'm at my spot I can then just use it like a regular transom mounted trolling motor which I'm fine with.

 

[Hank]

Paddle or an oar set-up is a better method for floating and maneuvering on a stream than any kind of motor.

Floating downstream, you’d set a line, drift and fish, then use the paddle to set a new line and drift and fish some more. That assumes you’re alone, which you probably should be in a 12’ canoe.

 

[Hank]

Name some of the rivers you want to fish, please.

 

[orey10m]

Name some of the rivers you want to fish, please.

Meramec river in Missouri.

I agree with the paddle/oar setup, but it doesn't help me get up stream without shuttling.

 

[Hank]

Meramec river in Missouri.

I agree with the paddle/oar setup, but it doesn't help me get up stream without shuttling.

Looks like a great resource! How far up are you fishing?

A gas motor will get you upstream lightest, cheapest and best. I think that back in the day of that boat they made an oar frame for it. Probably be surprisingly good with oars. I have oars on my jon boat and a jet outboard. Run up about 20-30 minutes, float back down. No shuttle.

Less is very much more in small boats. I've done the battery and TM in the distant past and hated the weight and bother. Thing about TMs is that when it gets shallow you have to pull them up and then you are without power or direction.

 

[orey10m]

Looks like a great resource! How far up are you fishing?

A gas motor will get you upstream lightest, cheapest and best. I think that back in the day of that boat they made an oar frame for it. Probably be surprisingly good with oars. I have oars on my jon boat and a jet outboard. Run up about 20-30 minutes, float back down. No shuttle.

Less is very much more in small boats. I've done the battery and TM in the distant past and hated the weight and bother. Thing about TMs is that when it gets shallow you have to pull them up and then you are without power or direction.

Appreciate it! if you're looking at a map I'm hoping to target the areas just outside STL all the way up to around steelville I guess.

I've really thought about putting oars on this boat as well. I don't think I could fish by myself on the float back down with oars though that easily...Seems like I'd have to put the rod down to handle the oars...

I'm not sure how much I'd be fishing by myself in reality, but frankly that IS somewhat the goal of having a stronger motor enable me to get upstream ...I don't have to depend on having a buddy available to shuttle with. I could just get out for a few hours on my own. And I think I could more easily fish and drift back down with a trolling motor by me than two oars.

This is great to have the thoughts and feedback though from everyone..it's like testing all my ideas and helping me work through them

 

[fjmaverick]

My dad bought this canoe to fish a river in Northern NY. The idea is to motor up the river and float back down.

I used to fish the same river in a 12' aluminum boat and a transom mount trolling motor. No problem getting up stream with 3 highschool kids onboard.

I guess the question is how fast is the current you're working against

 

[fatman]

Appreciate it! if you're looking at a map I'm hoping to target the areas just outside STL all the way up to around steelville I guess.

I've spent quite a bit of time on and around the Meramec in the areas that you're looking at (lived in Eureka for about ten years); that's a pretty good flow of water to try to fight upstream with a small boat/motor. You'll want to use as many horses as you can get away with - can't see the hp rating on the ol' Johnson in the add, but the current Discovery 15 is rated to 4hp, so I'd reckon you're looking at 3-3.5hp for the 13 footer. If you want to also have a troller for fishing, you could rig up a front-mount for your canoe (I believe @anytide sells one on his website)

Now it's a matter of weight; the ad shows 650# capacity on that canoe. Not sure how big an ol' boy you are, but adding up the weight of outboard, fuel, troller and battery and you're getting a pretty good load. You could save some weight by going with something like a Coleman outboard with an integral tank (looks like they make a 2.6hp) and even spring for a lithium battery for your troller....The heavier you are, the tougher it's gonna be running upstream. I've paddled downstream on the Meramec a bunch of times, but always ran a shuttle.

Alternatively, there's some damn good fishing on some of the smaller rivers in your area that the 55lb troller would work great for. And don't forget that you can use a double-bladed paddle just fine from a canoe....

YMMV

 

[orey10m]

View attachment 246419

My dad bought this canoe to fish a river in Northern NY. The idea is to motor up the river and float back down.

I used to fish the same river in a 12' aluminum boat and a transom mount trolling motor. No problem getting up stream with 3 highschool kids onboard.

I guess the question is how fast is the current you're working against

I spoke with an older guy at an outboard dealership near here yesterday and he said the current was normally around 6miles per hour or less on this river.
Unless it's really rolling...at which point I wouldn't be out there anyway.

 

[TXJM]

6 mph is rollin to me.
chip

 

[John Patrick]

A couple of comments for consideration.

An 80lb Terrova will move my flats boat at about 3.5mph at ~80% power. My flats boat with two big guys and fully loaded weighs about 2,000lbs.

That Honda with the 1hr run time at full throttle has a 1.1 liter fuel tank. It would be easy to bring a couple hours worth of extra fuel, and it wouldn’t take much room.

You can really make a boat move with oars. I rent a rowboat out of Fletcher’s Boathouse a couple of times a year during the spring shad run on the Potomac River. Sticking to the side of the river to avoid the main current, I can work my way upriver. In the spring the river is really moving.

Maybe the best option would be oars and a trolling motor used in tandem to work upstream, then ship the oars and use the trolling motor for positioning as you drift downstream. And an easy to use anchor system for when your positioned well to save battery power.

 

[orey10m]

I've spent quite a bit of time on and around the Meramec in the areas that you're looking at (lived in Eureka for about ten years); that's a pretty good flow of water to try to fight upstream with a small boat/motor. You'll want to use as many horses as you can get away with - can't see the hp rating on the ol' Johnson in the add, but the current Discovery 15 is rated to 4hp, so I'd reckon you're looking at 3-3.5hp for the 13 footer. If you want to also have a troller for fishing, you could rig up a front-mount for your canoe (I believe @anytide sells one on his website)

Now it's a matter of weight; the ad shows 650# capacity on that canoe. Not sure how big an ol' boy you are, but adding up the weight of outboard, fuel, troller and battery and you're getting a pretty good load. You could save some weight by going with something like a Coleman outboard with an integral tank (looks like they make a 2.6hp) and even spring for a lithium battery for your troller....The heavier you are, the tougher it's gonna be running upstream. I've paddled downstream on the Meramec a bunch of times, but always ran a shuttle.

Alternatively, there's some damn good fishing on some of the smaller rivers in your area that the 55lb troller would work great for. And don't forget that you can use a double-bladed paddle just fine from a canoe....

YMMV

Oh heck yeah - cool that you chimed in and thanks for the info!
I weigh less than 150lbs myself. Yes I've taken it on the big and the b*****se using my old 55lb thrust motor and I was able to get upstream fine, although it was slow going.

The canoe is only 13 ft, but it's shaped like a 17 footer or so with the back cut off ya know.
I should try it more from the middle seat with my kayak paddle.

I feel like I need to just decide on one motor... This is not a watercraft I have a trailer for, nor do I have space for one, so I'm stuck "building" the boat at the ramp. I don't want to be hooking up both a gas outboard on the back and a trolling motor on the front every time I want to go out.

 

[mt hwy]

I always have found it a total pain fishing from a canoe in anything beyond flat water. If possible in your waters going downstream, try paddling to the good looking fishing spots, beach it and get out and fish that spot, get back in canoe - repeat. Works great on western style rivers in a canoe - you pull into the eddy pools, gravel bars, etc and get out and fish it - the drift boats go by watching you whack the spots they wish they could.

Thin wall PVC heat molded to your gunwale curve and tied in for rod tubes - smaller diameter on one side for the fly rod, larger on the other for the spinning rod and you're loaded for bear - just watch out for the otters!