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Paul-

can you give those of us who aren’t smart on this topic a bit of info about:

3) what happens when a battery spontaneously combusts, like in a Tesla… will your Marine fire extinguisher be adequate?


thank you in advance!
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We’ve been on the electrical and jet internally for some time now and not sure if its worth pursuing. Also heard another company is also doing R&D on jet drive system as well…
We are way ahead as a whole in tech now than just a few years ago. I feel Mercury will make some headway with their new outboard and give Torqueedo and others some serious competitio!
 

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Paul-

can you give those of us who aren’t smart on this topic a bit of info about:

1) where the majority of these rare earth minerals required for this batteries are mined? And by whom?
Are you saying fossil fuels aren't mined?
2) how does one dispose of LiFePO batteries after their useful lives? Do they get recycled?
Is there any waste created by other forms of energy? Do they recycle exhausted oil wells?
3) what happens when a battery spontaneously combusts, like in a Tesla… will your Marine fire extinguisher be adequate?
Are you suggesting there is no fire related accidents with fossil fuels?
4). Finally, how does one charge their non-petrol motors? Do they get charged by the batteries powering your home?
Are you saying you can use coal, solar, nuclear, hydro and wind to fuel your gas motors?

thank you in advance!
Your questions are confusing so I responded with some of my own. These issue exist regardless and trying to invent new things is an interesting study and how we progress.
At one point there were literally people that sounded just like you guys talking about horses instead of cars. No one says you have to buy an electric boat, but no one says basically everything you said isn't true in some form for fossil fuels, or your car battery, or boats battery, or computer.
 
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Zephyr Cove is on FIRE!
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Your questions are confusing so I responded with some of my own. These issue exist regardless and trying to invent new things is an interesting study and how we progress.
At one point there were literally people that sounded just like you guys talking about horses instead of cars. No one says you have to buy an electric boat, but no one says basically everything you said isn't true in some form for fossil fuels, or your car battery, or boats battery, or computer.
None of us are against inventions. What we are not accepting is that our government is trying to phase out gasoline and diesel engines and replace them with electric. You know it’s not about the environment, it’s about gaining even more control. You have me on ignore so I guess my reply is for whoever chooses to read it.
Paul is still laughing.
 

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Your questions are confusing so I responded with some of my own. These issue exist regardless and trying to invent new things is an interesting study and how we progress.
At one point there were literally people that sounded just like you guys talking about horses instead of cars. No one says you have to buy an electric boat, but no one says basically everything you said isn't true in some form for fossil fuels, or your car battery, or boats battery, or computer.
Speaking of confusing…
 

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Speaking of confusing…
Whats confusing?

There were legitimate arguments for horses vs cars at the time.

Fossil fuels are basically guilty of all of the above as well, we have just run that tech 100 years and spend 10 on large scale battery power.
 

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Whats confusing?

There were legitimate arguments for horses vs cars at the time.

Fossil fuels are basically guilty of all of the above as well, we have just run that tech 100 years and spend 10 on large scale battery power.
You said you posed questions of your own — must’ve missed it. But I enjoy the old “horse argument” to remind me of the definition of false equivalency. Perhaps you could answer the questions I posed, and I am happy to converse and answer any of yours.

I think you’ll have your work cut out convincing me that converting the world’s transportation system to all electric fleets of cars, boats, planes etc requiring vast utilization of rare earth minerals is somehow any more sustainable than other energy alternatives that have a proven track record.

It seems to me that it’s often overlooked that batteries are a means of storing energy, they don’t create energy like the process of nuclear fission/fusion, burning coal or oil/natural gas. So once the world converts its transportation to all battery powered fleets as it sounds like you desire, how are all these batteries being charged? Other batteries? And how are those ones charged?
 

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That’s my point. Is exactly no one in this thread has talked about converting any fleets or changing anything. Only the naysayers have like you. It was posted as interesting someone generated a battery powered boat, that’s it. And interesting it is. I didn’t see where you were asked to give up anything here. My responses to your questions are in the Quote. I am saying at the beginning of fossil fuels people naysayed about no fueling stations, poor reliability, steam engines were known for exploding and killing lots of people. Especially in steamboats(at the time an up and coming technology). The original mining techniques were insanely bad for the environment, but they learned as they went.

There are all kinds of interesting things to introduce to battery powered stuff. Like I said previously you can distribute weight on a boat differently, you can use nuclear energy to power your boat, you could use solar energy to recharge small vessels in areas that fuel is less accessible, like the Caribbean. You could do things with the battery pack like direct connect to your trolling motor which would run for weeks.

I mean buying DakotaLithium batteries is considered a sweet upgrade for a reason.

No one is trying to convert you, or asking you to.
 

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So if one could build an electric outboard that had similar performance as a 50-60 hp gas motor with say a 50 mile range who in this thread would be willing to pay $20k +/- for motor, rigging, battery/s, and charger?
 

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I think it would have to be 10k or less to bring any real action. Just rolling up to your spot dead silent tho.
 

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I think it would have to be 10k or less to bring any real action. Just rolling up to your spot dead silent tho.
There lies the problem. The batteries alone would be around $5,000.00 - $6,000.00. One has to realize I said $20k all in though and deduct the things a gas burner would take like a tank and fuel hose, control box and cables “since hypothetical the electric outboard had it’s own”. Oh, and a starting battery!🤣
 
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Here is the big picture simple truth.

The technology is NOT there yet for wide spread switch from petroleum based to electric based. There are significant technical issues right now with the electric battery technology. Not the least of which is that the world supply of the rare earth minerals is not there to support this long term. Now we SHOULD be investing in technology development but we should NOT be making stupid mandate laws like banning gas vehicles by such and such a date.

Tucker Carlson had a terrific comment on this issue the other night. Get the technology to the point where its viable and cost effective and you won't have to mandate it the market will be there on its own.
 

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I retired after a 37 year career as nuclear engineer. Good comments and questions in our form. As noted by some, innovation is encouraged and supported provided the math supports sustainable or probability. Yes, we have not had a good long term National energy plan (my opinion). We are late returning to nuclear energy and the long term processing of our nuclear waste. Yes we are now building reactors that are significantly more efficient in fuel use. And yes we know how to safe process and store waste. We are far from an establishment of a long term plan.
Our infrastructure/grid for power generation and distribution requires massive redesign and capitalization. To do this we have to agree on long term power generation sources. Unfortunately the the same people who have given ethanol as a green solution are controlling the bulk of current power generation decisions. As noted, the math does not support sustainability in some currently touted green energy systems. They simply are not green or sustainable. It is surprising and welcoming to see nuclear power being included as part of an energy plan.
Back to innovation, the development of carbon fiber battery technology and other battery technologies could be significant steps in sustainability. The Terra Power reactors coming on line 2028ish also are encouraging. The political promises and commitments by cites and states to have all electric transportation by 2035 or 2050 is not supported by materials, infrastructure, environmental and land availability limits.
It is very good to see healthy discussion on our forum.
 

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There lies the problem. The batteries alone would be around $5,000.00 - $6,000.00. One has to realize I said $20k all in though and deduct the things a gas burner would take like a tank and fuel hose, control box and cables “since hypothetical the electric outboard had it’s own”. Oh, and a starting battery!🤣
For sure, I think the cost is too high for now, but these things slowly go down for various reasons. I like to use flat screen TVs as a good example too. An amazing TV today cost 500 bucks in our inflated dollars and that same TV was 4 grand 20 years ago with money worth twice what it is now and the TV kind of sucked.

Yeah there's a lot of things added to the use of a fuel motor that would not be needed, I didn't really even think of that. I would think eventually the battery would be some kind of liquid poured and set into the bottom of the hull, or maybe even layered in using a method like fiberglass on the inside to distribute weight evenly. You would gain a lot of hatch space in that world and even if your overall was 50 pounds more, in reality I put a cooler full of beer and ice on my bow when I am poling by myself any way so I don't drag ass in the shallow stuff. You may not even have a trolling motor, just a "remote mode" since your motor is silent. So remember you can also remove the weight of your 2 or 3 existing batteries and potentially the whole trolling motor. That all starts adding up!

I also did a little research and saw that a Tesla 340 HP motor weighs 70lbs and a 340HP gas motor weighs more like 800 lbs. So that lends to some interesting weight distribution ideas as well.
 
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I Love microskiff.com!
Sharp Hooks Matter
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I retired after a 37 year career as nuclear engineer. Good comments and questions in our form. As noted by some, innovation is encouraged and supported provided the math supports sustainable or probability. Yes, we have not had a good long term National energy plan (my opinion). We are late returning to nuclear energy and the long term processing of our nuclear waste. Yes we are now building reactors that are significantly more efficient in fuel use. And yes we know how to safe process and store waste. We are far from an establishment of a long term plan.
Our infrastructure/grid for power generation and distribution requires massive redesign and capitalization. To do this we have to agree on long term power generation sources. Unfortunately the the same people who have given ethanol as a green solution are controlling the bulk of current power generation decisions. As noted, the math does not support sustainability in some currently touted green energy systems. They simply are not green or sustainable. It is surprising and welcoming to see nuclear power being included as part of an energy plan.
Back to innovation, the development of carbon fiber battery technology and other battery technologies could be significant steps in sustainability. The Terra Power reactors coming on line 2028ish also are encouraging. The political promises and commitments by cites and states to have all electric transportation by 2035 or 2050 is not supported by materials, infrastructure, environmental and land availability limits.
It is very good to see healthy discussion on our forum.
Right! The general public does not understand that as large generators such as nucs and coal are retired, the transmission system suffers greatly as the former is replaced by technologies that lack rotating mass that is needed for power flow and quality. Even people in the business talk endlessly about megawatts but few outside of electrical engineer types know anything about megavars or reactive power. The public is being “sold” a bill of goods that entirely excludes transmission infrastructure investment to begin utility scale green power specifically to replace the loss of rotating mass. Distributed generation certainly helps but there is the NIMBY syndrome everywhere.

I work for one of the largest utilities in the country and am miffed at the lack of knowledge in this area that high level financial utility planners understand. They are beginning to understand but should have sought to understand and listen to their experts before committing to retirements that are leaving all three of our power interconnections (Eastern, Western & ERCOT) in a degraded reliability position.
 

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We’ve been on the electrical and jet internally for some time now and not sure if its worth pursuing. Also heard another company is also doing R&D on jet drive system as well…
We are way ahead as a whole in tech now than just a few years ago. I feel Mercury will make some headway with their new outboard and give Torqueedo and others some serious competitio!
Why not use a prop instead of a jet?
 

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The general public is being hoodwinked with this sort of carbon reduction tact. Utility power distribution systems will need billions $ nationwide investment to handle amperage requirements to recharge this rudimentary, environmental disastrous and expensive technology. Current neighborhood transformers simply cannot handle the load recharging in an acceptable (let’s say a few hours) time. The public is not being told anything about how much the transmission infrastructure spending will increase their monthly bills nor do many understand the disposal issues with battery components or the astronomical cost of replacement that can exceed the original cost of a vehicle or in this case motor taking inflation into account. Also, the rare earth elements used are largely held by countries that are not our friends and their mining is disastrous to the Earth. This pipe dream just trades one set of problems for another and compounds it by taking yet more control from individuals. Hydrogen will be the long term innovation area, along with expanding nuclear and reprocessing of what is now disposed fuel after a once through fuel cycle. The once through nuclear fuel cycle we practice wastes 70% of available energy in a nuclear fuel core.

(Continuous power & gas utility career since 1985 backing up my statements).
This is not gibberish, or made up banter rooted in new beliefs. This is the truth. It is NOT based on any sort of new science or trend. It is the hard facts based in math that has been fully vetted and in practice since man harnessed electricity, over 100 years.
To believe or argue otherwise is synonymous with arguing the earth is flat.
Dont be Foolish
 
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