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Did I say that? I have also worked with several that do, never said other wise. I have no bias. Zero. Mel at ankona was awesome!

I will always call it like I see it by my own experience. Just wish all here that had so much to say had to do it in an elevator with that person on their face. It wouldn’t go the same way.
I would, but that’s just me. Calls it likes I sees it. Mel is a great dude, have had a few conversations with him and he knows I’m not even interested in purchasing but rather becoming yet more competition. He took the time to email me and offer some great advise in the beginning and even offered some assistance if I needed it! Hal is a great guy too, like I said before... he could have just told us to pound sand when asked about some scrap core for @Backcountry 16’s new re build but he stepped up and said sure, no problem. That means a whole hell of a lot to me! Again, Hal knew there wasn’t gonna be a sale but stepped up and did what was a good thing for no reason other than to be kind! Hat is tipped to both!
 

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Value is in the eye of the beholder. To me a Chittum skiff would never be worth it, blown out knees, arthritic feet and a head operation that results in occasional vertigo, means I do not pole much. I would be better off spending the money on a guide with a Chittum.

But just like high end stereo equipment, cars etc, there is a point of diminishing returns and not everyone can hear the difference in stereos, or can drive well enough to appreciate a car, or pole a skiff enough to see the value.

So for me it is Pathfinder, Beavertail, Ram 1500, BMW Z4, Marantz amps and Paradigm speakers. Plenty of more expensive and ‘better’ out there, but this is my sweet spot of diminishing returns. Everyone has their own point and no right or wrong is involved. Kudos to those who can take advantage of what a high end skiff has to offer.
 

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Value is in the eye of the beholder. To me a Chittum skiff would never be worth it, blown out knees, arthritic feet and a head operation that results in occasional vertigo, means I do not pole much. I would be better off spending the money on a guide with a Chittum.

But just like high end stereo equipment, cars etc, there is a point of diminishing returns and not everyone can hear the difference in stereos, or can drive well enough to appreciate a car, or pole a skiff enough to see the value.

So for me it is Pathfinder, Beavertail, Ram 1500, BMW Z4, Marantz amps and Paradigm speakers. Plenty of more expensive and ‘better’ out there, but this is my sweet spot of diminishing returns. Everyone has their own point and no right or wrong is involved. Kudos to those who can take advantage of what a high end skiff has to offer.
You do make some valid points. I will add a little twist to it though if you’ll humor me please...
Some folks are boat enthusiasts just like the car guys and they love to fish too. They may not be able to pole the skiff or even operate it or an offshore boat for that matter. So they buy the boat, then pay someone or take a friend along that is competent and capable. I spent my 20’s working at a large dealership and my boss and best man was a fair bit older than I. He had some coin and loved flats and offshore fishing. I captained his boats when he wanted to go out or wanted to “wine and dine” some friends or clients from his other business and in return I got to go offshore fishing on a regular basis fo free and that was back when we could keep 5 grouper so needless to say I ate well! Same for inshore, would go anytime and pole the boat a few hrs in the A:M for him then switch to trolling motor and spin tackle the rest of the day. Plus, I had a company fuel card and was permitted to fill my tank if he wasn’t going! Ok, it was a little long winded and some gloating but the point was some folks just like boats and prefer to own there own even though they can just hire guides and life would be much simpler.
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Both the 2 and 12 degree are really nice boats, I’ve been on both in their own environment, but I’ve never driven either. They do seem to ride bow down
@scissorhands
In general, Chittums seem to perform best running level and on top of chop. The 12 degree has more trim range to get the bow up than the 2 degree with short shaft OB. In my experience running the 2* I could trim the bow up plenty to cross Galveston, Epiritu Santo & San Antonio Bays.

Will post some running videos soon...

Best,
 

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Discussion Starter #86 (Edited)
Anybody got performance numbers on the 21?
Top speeds I’ve heard:

On the Mangrove build 21 with Merc 115, reached low 50s. On a heavily appointed 21 (2 bait wells, tuna tubes, etc) with F150, reached 57 mph. In both cases the boats were not totally dialed in with props.

I poled the Mangrove build 21 w/ Tohatsu 115 at the Miami Boatshow. It drafted the same as the Mangrove Performance 18 with F70: about 7”. The 3rd video on the IG post below shows Johan Vannieuwland poling the 21.

http://instagr.am/p/B8rZPanhD14/
 

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Hey Steven @sjrobin ,

You’re great at hunting fish and poling a skiff ...but.... your remarks have a lot of mis information....

View attachment 151708

View attachment 151707

I seriously doubt a builder could be more revealing than the extensive step by step photos which Chittum has posted on IG and I reposted on this thread. If there’s only 1 IG repost everyone should see, it’s the 3rd one on the first post showing Chittum’s steps in one shot infusion on the hull.

Of the 4 I’ve owned, 3 were prototypes or the first of a kind Carbon Race Boat (1st 100% carbon build), LM2 1st 100% carbon 2 degree,12 degree Mangrove prototype (originally a tiller- converted to center console). All 3 of these boats are my favorites for their application— all have held up under serious use.

I get a text every month from the 2nd owner of my LM1 tunnel... he raves. Just yesterday:

“Just fished the LM hard for five days. Hands down the easiest poling skiff made! ... People just don’t understand the difference...”

@sjrobin, your comment: “There will be lots of variability in the build quality with all the different lay up options offered.” The base Snake Bight layup has been around since 2009. The Snake Bight Performance has been in development since the first “widow maker” was built in 2013 for Thane Morgan & Dustin Huff, later owned bu Nathaniel Linville (that boat is at the Chittum factory for sale with Evinrude 175 — no stress cracks after 7 years running 50-60 mph). The Mangrove / LM2 builds began in the summer of 2018... to me these are the most exciting boats given their super light weight and strong performance with lighter outboards. *** The common denominator of all Chittums since 2009 is 100% infusion— hulls, parts liner & deck... these are very strong boats. The first 2 posts on this thread demonstrate their infusion mastery.

Your remark: “Hal and George .... have a history of over promise and under deliver.” @sjrobin - you said that to me in 2017! ... I got my 2 new builds 2017& 2018 on time. I believe they’re on hull 149 from the Palm City facility.

Let’s get out on the water soon!
No worries Stevie, just an old, out of touch Texas fish hunter with a special dislike for hype. I have spent hours talking to Hal (boat shows/events) about everything from ranches to fishing big game in Australia, but skiff building did not come up much. Any negatives I mentioned and the response is operator error. He is fun to talk to because of his experiences. Zero sales pitch to me. I think deep down he regrets selling the Hells Bay brand. The hype comes from the owners and George, just the way it should. I actually recommend Chittum skiffs to people that don't pole a skiff much or have good working knowledge of the water they intend to fish. I know of a few 2 deg sales I have made for them,
Kids in t-shirts assembling a complex product probably triggered my response.
 

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Speaking of hype..... I will be the first to say ( and I’ve told many that ask me how I like my boat) I didn’t believe the hype at first and was very skeptical about all of the claims being made.
Fast forward a couple months. I made trip down to key west to fish with a buddy of mine who has an Islamorada 18 with a 115. Long story short my HB was for sale on my ride home. Haven’t looked back since. I won’t get into the details here since I don’t think it’s that kind of thread, but I would be happy to share if someone so happens to want to know.
 

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I just made the decision to purchase my newest skiff. Naturally, I considered a Chittum.

After a lot of debate between the BT Vengeance, HB Marquesa, Chittum Snake Bight 18, and a light weight version of the ECC Vantage, I chose the Vantage.

I will be building the VHP in Aramid (Kevlar) with Carbon deck surfaces, but my VHP will be lightly built for a Pro XS 115. I'll go all Lithium and cut out weight here and there.

I narrowed my choices down to Chittum and ECC. I could not justify the large cost difference for 1" of draft when the VHP is more similar in deck size to the Chittum 21, and each has a great ride.

I do believe that Chittum builds an excellent boat but I struggled with the pricing. Charging $15K for a carbon upgrade that represents an $1200 material difference seems unethical to me, and I am a builder of high-end waterfront homes.

Not looking for a debate here. I am just being honest about what swayed my decision. If you can afford it, and you find value in it, good on you.
 

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I just made the decision to purchase my newest skiff. Naturally, I considered a Chittum.

After a lot of debate between the BT Vengeance, HB Marquesa, Chittum Snake Bight 18, and a light weight version of the ECC Vantage, I chose the Vantage.

I will be building the VHP in Aramid (Kevlar) with Carbon deck surfaces, but my VHP will be lightly built for a Pro XS 115. I'll go all Lithium and cut out weight here and there.

I narrowed my choices down to Chittum and ECC. I could not justify the large cost difference for 1" of draft when the VHP is more similar in deck size to the Chittum 21, and each has a great ride.

I do believe that Chittum builds an excellent boat but I struggled with the pricing. Charging $15K for a carbon upgrade that represents an $1200 material difference seems unethical to me, and I am a builder of high-end waterfront homes.

Not looking for a debate here. I am just being honest about what swayed my decision. If you can afford it, and you find value in it, good on you.
Great choice in the Vantage, but the full carbon Chittum would have been too! The $15k difference certainly represents more than the cost of materials and as a builder you should recognize a few... Lamination schedule engineering to create the lightest yet strongest platform they can, the build methods are different, from what I see the Chittum is “mostly” fully cored not just in “key” areas and this creates a substantial amount of waste. But don’t get me wrong, the East Cape line is a good line and from everyone I have talked to Kevin is a great guy to deal with! Also remember, there is a lot in a “NAME”! Around here and I am pretty sure it is like this in many places, the clients are going to want the creme de la creme and will jump on the “Nicest, fastest, cleanest” first... even if the guide might be mediocre. Again, that’s no jab at East Cape as they build a fabulous boat! But Chittum has that “luxury thing” going for them!
 
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I guess my own brand might be in line with Chittum's by your description. Except that mine delivers obvious value along with sex appeal, performance and quality. Hence the basis of my decision; Is the Chittum worth $30K more than the Vantage I will be building? Not when I viewed the two pragmatically.

There is a curve in the line graph that represents quality vs cost. At some point costs rise with no equitable quality attached. In my view, the ECC was on that curve and the Chittum was nearly straight up from there.

No judgement here. It's just that if there is real value there, Chittum either does a poor job of expressing that value or I have not valued it in the way they have expressed it.

Again, not knocking the boat. It is phenomenal. I just don't think it is worth 50% more than boats that are similar in size, ride and overall performance. Regardless, I am happy that they exist to elevate the entire market and continue to push the industry upward.
 

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I guess my own brand might be in line with Chittum's by your description. Except that mine delivers obvious value along with sex appeal, performance and quality. Hence the basis of my decision; Is the Chittum worth $30K more than the Vantage I will be building? Not when I viewed the two pragmatically.

There is a curve in the line graph that represents quality vs cost. At some point costs rise with no equitable quality attached. In my view, the ECC was on that curve and the Chittum was nearly straight up from there.

No judgement here. It's just that if there is real value there, Chittum either does a poor job of expressing that value or I have not valued it in the way they have expressed it.

Again, not knocking the boat. It is phenomenal. I just don't think it is worth 50% more than boats that are similar in size, ride and overall performance. Regardless, I am happy that they exist to elevate the entire market and continue to push the industry upward.
I certainly get it my friend, and if you’ve followed any of my posts you’ll know I am no where near being able to purchase a skiff that cost at a minimum double what my 5 acre homestead cost me. But the value is in what the purchaser/ owner sees. Any item, and I mean any item is truly only worth what someone is willing to pay for said item! I think you made a great choice for your needs and intended budget and you will enjoy your new skiff as it is a quality skiff no doubt! And besides that... once X-Caliber comes on the market ya’ll will all be trading up!!! 😎 🤘 Tight lines, and God bless, James!🙏
 
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^ I am not a Chittum cheerleader (though I think they are excellent boats) but I really don't understand where people come in thinking they are 50% more expensive than some other mid-high end flats boat.

A 10% CF Chittum is I think 54k with a 50hp Tohatsu, 60k with an F70.

So, you are telling me a Vantage out the door is 36-40k? I don't think so.

Now, could you make a Chittum that is 50% more than a Vantage? Sure, you can get 100% CF, lots of random expensive options and get there. But ECC would also build you a full carbon Vantage that would cost 80k as well!
 

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What I’ve gathered from this thread:
  • Chittum has pushed the envelope and has leaped past the competition
  • The OP moved to my area and caught more permit on fly on his chittum in 3 months than I have in my entire life
  • The most popular hulls haven’t changed in years besides increasing weight to support 4 Strokes
  • There is a demand for similar light weight Builds
  • I can’t afford any of the skiffs mentioned
 

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What I’ve gathered from this thread:
  • Chittum has pushed the envelope and has leaped past the competition
  • The OP moved to my area and caught more permit on fly on his chittum in 3 months than I have in my entire life
  • The most popular hulls haven’t changed in years besides increasing weight to support 4 Strokes
  • There is a demand for similar light weight Builds
  • I can’t afford any of the skiffs mentioned
I think that sums it up, I can afford one of them but I have to build it lol!😂
 
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and people are still spending money like crazy even with a pandemic, a marxist uprising and imminent collapse of the economy. life is good my friends.
Ya, that way they can keep their boat for only the payments they sent in because the banks won't be around to take them. LOL
 

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and people are still spending money like crazy even with a pandemic, a marxist uprising and imminent collapse of the economy. life is good my friends.
They are patriots, and besides... it’s fake money anyway! 🤣 And the $600 week federal unemployment put $100’s more in some folks hands each week than they have ever made and they have not a clue what to do with it! Not everyone, but many! $1200-$2400 down will get them all sorts of new toys they can’t afford when they go back to work! Hey, I was there once and I was earning every penny of what I had coming in! Those middle grounds trips with a built 250 Yamaha turning a 15x26 prop 10k rpms were so much fun though! Yes, I took a single engine boat with a race motor to the middle grounds... and many many times, but hey, I was in my 20’s!
 
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They are patriots, and besides... it’s fake money anyway! 🤣
Yep, and if Trump isn't re-elected, the price just went down for resale as well as purchasing at the dealer.
Might want to wait till November. :oops:
 

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Yep, and if Trump isn't re-elected, the price just went down for resale as well as purchasing at the dealer.
Might want to wait till November. :oops:
I’m not in the market for anything. If you look back through some of my posts you will see my business plan was to be up and running in 2021. Ol’ redneck cracker from Homosassa ain’t as dumb as some on here thought! 🤣 😎 🤙

Man, I do love the hieroglyphics! 🤪
 
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