screw hole sealant for Ankona boat?

Discussion in 'Boat Yard Basics' started by skinnydipn, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. skinnydipn

    skinnydipn I Love microskiff.com!

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    I want to mount a Ram trolling motor stabilizer mount on the front deck of my Ankona Native SUV however it may not be permanent. What is the best sealant for screw holes on the decks of Ankona boats. I ruled out 3M 5200 as it tends to be a permanent sealant and cannot be removed later...anyone drill screw holes in their Ankona decks and what type of sealant would U recommend? I want something that is compatible with the composition of the deck. Thanks for any suggestions U can give me.
     
  2. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    I don't know of anything that wouldn't be compatible really. If you want something that will seal but not be permanent then marine silicone will do the job, but I would redo the seal at least once a year as it does not hold up like 5200 does.
     

  3. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    4200 is said to be 50% strenght of 5200 and is designed not to be permanent. I have a tube of 5200 in the freezer and have used it and removed it later. I dont like silicone very much.
     
  4. Creek Runner

    Creek Runner Well-Known Member

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    4200 if you need to take it off, 5200 or 2 part Epoxy if you want it to stay there depending on the job!
     
  5. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    Silicone and thrubolts
     
  6. skinnydipn

    skinnydipn I Love microskiff.com!

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    I wish I could thru bolt it with backing washers and nuts but cannot reach it under the deck. I appreciate all your suggestions...any others would be gratefully accepted.
     
  7. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    first:

    3m 5200 isn't as permenant as people will lead you to believe...

    3m4200 or "life caulk" - these are good choices as well

    silicone is allways a poor choice...

    second:

    screwing into a composite is not the best approach - composites are all different
    example,a low quality composite like nida core,it will never hold a screw - it will rely on the outer and inner skin of fiberglass to hold - not good huh ??

    dense foams,like divinycell,will fail to hold a screw as well...

    using a fastener with composites requires a special technique,for the fastener to be reliable - i've given this advice numerous times...

    the core in the area the fastener is to be located needs to be removed,do to the inner skin of fiberglass,that area,needs to be filled with an epoxy,thickened - i like and use west system,mixed with 403 adhesive additive - fill the area,let it kick...if you're smart,you're not gonna use self taping "wood" screws - you're gonna use "machine screws"- example,if you're planing on using a 1/4" - 20 screw,drill the hole 3/16",dab the hole wit some3m 5200,and run the screw in,it will thread the epoxy,and never loosen,till you decide you would like to remove it...

    composites: tru bolting and sleeving is allways the best method of ataching hardware - when it's not possible,follow the advice i typed - failure to follow that,you're fastener WILL pull...
     
  8. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Follow kreepa's advise.

    I drill a hole in the outer skin and then insert an allen wrench in the hole and use it to make a cavity in the foam. That way when I pack it full of thickend epoxy the epoxy plug is bigger than the hole and is also stuck to the inner skin making it almost impossible for it to pull out.
     
  9. skinnydipn

    skinnydipn I Love microskiff.com!

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    I'm kinda slow so bear with me here. Are U guys saying that I should use an epoxy in the hole and dab 5200 on top of the hole and then thread a machine screw thru both of them? or can I fill the hole with just 5200 and thread the machine screw thru that?

    Your help is appreciated...thanks.
     
  10. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    composites will not hold screws - that composite core,it has to be removed in the area the fasteners will be located - not just some epoxy in the hole...


    follow this advice:

    screwing into a composite is not the best approach - composites are all different
    example,a low quality composite like nida core,it will never hold a screw - it will rely on the outer and inner skin of fiberglass to hold - not good huh ??

    dense foams,like divinycell,will fail to hold a screw as well...

    using a fastener with composites requires a special technique,for the fastener to be reliable - i've given this advice numerous times...

    the core in the area the fastener is to be located needs to be removed,do to the inner skin of fiberglass,that area,needs to be filled with an epoxy,thickened - i like and use west system,mixed with 403 adhesive additive - fill the area,let it kick...if you're smart,you're not gonna use self taping "wood" screws - you're gonna use "machine screws"- example,if you're planing on using a 1/4" - 20 screw,drill the hole 3/16",dab the hole with some 3m 5200,and run the screw in,it will thread the epoxy,and never loosen,till you decide you would like to remove it...

    composites: tru bolting and sleeving is allways the best method of ataching hardware - when it's not possible,follow the advice i typed - failure to follow that,you're fastener WILL pull...

    you can avoid all this,by thru bolting and sleeving...
     
  11. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    One question at a time
      Yes
      Not sure what you mean by both.  Fill the hole with thickened epoxy and let it kick off but not thoroughly cure.  Screw the machine screw into the epoxy.  Once it cures you take the screw out and then put 5200 in the hole and tighten down.  Or you can skip the two step process and drill a hole in the kicked off epoxy put 5200 and then screw in the screw.
      No

    To paint a picture: you want to mount something with a 1/4" screw. You need to create a mounting point. That mounting point is the thickened epoxy and with a diameter of say, 1/2".

    Like I said. Drill a 1/4" hole through the top layer of glass. Use an allen wrench to clear out the cavity between the two skins then fill that with epoxy. I put the allen wrench in the drill and use it like an auger.
     
  12. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    Mr. Nut I used the allen wrench trick on a whaler I had but did not think of tapping the screw into partially kicked epoxy. Foam core holds nothing and when done it was solid. The test was when I rammed a dock with motor down. Follow the above steps and your good to go these guys know thier stuff
     
  13. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    You sure you cant get in there and thru bolt it? Or hire a little nighborhood kid
     
  14. skinnydipn

    skinnydipn I Love microskiff.com!

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    No, I cannot reach that area under the front deck...I have been on the lookout for skinny, little people to crawl in there.

    I may have to go the WestSystem epoxy way. My concern is that once I implant those machine screws into the epoxy prior to adding 5200, I may not be able to remove them after the epoxy cures solid...also what West Sys epoxy blend would work best for this and I thought this would be a easy project... :-?
     
  15. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    There is oi; on the screw from the manufacturing process, you can also give it a shot of silicone spray if you wish.

    Remember, you are not stuffing the screw into wet epoxy. You are screwing it into the epoxy when it turns to a ge/soild but before it totally cures.

    Try this. Mix some epoxy together and play with it and when it kicks you will see the consistency change - that is when you screw it in.

    One thing I do with the two step process is to use a longer screw than I will use for the final because if you don't get the hole deep enough the final screw won't fully tighten and it is a PITA to tap it.
     
  16. jfboothe

    jfboothe I Love microskiff.com!

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    All of the above advice is good to seal the hole keep the area structurally sound. You can also consider using stainless steel blind toggle type bolts. They will keep the load spread out around the area.
     
  17. Dillusion

    Dillusion devilray snob

    This. This is how Ankona does it if the decks are already glassed in.
     
  18. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    never a good idea to use those style fasteners,in a "stressed" situation - trolling motor fastening qualifies as "stressed"
    the picture below: that's a manufacture who used those style toggle bolts to hold a t-top down to a divinycell cored deck - as the pictures show,the fasteners failed,causing damage to the deck - the cracks visible in the picture,along with the console...big job it was,repairing the damage...

    [​IMG]



    follow the advice i gave,it's the "accepted" method...
     
  19. jfboothe

    jfboothe I Love microskiff.com!

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    The fastners failed? It looks like from the picture that the divinycell cored deck failed. What did they hit with it?
     
  20. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    those style fasteners:they will appear to hold,however,vibration will cause the coring to fracture,making the hole larger,causing the fastener to become loose - resulting in movement...the fastener actuall goes through the divinycell,till it fetches up on the glass skin,then the skin flexes up and down - that's the cracking shown in the pictures - the owner attempted to adhere it,using 3m 5200 - that's what's smeared all over...

    this is the reason the accepted method for using fasteners is what i described,or thru bolting and sleeving - the other methods will fail...