rolling and tipping?

Discussion in 'Boat Yard Basics' started by tightloops1900, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. tightloops1900

    tightloops1900 I Love microskiff.com!

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    i dont have a paint sprayer, or compressor. what brands of paint are best for rolling and tipping and how many coats is best? what do i do between coats for best results?
     
  2. texmac

    texmac I Love microskiff.com!

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    I've used Pettit Easy Poxy and Awlgrip.

    Awlgrip first;
    Expensive but very durable-the best. Easy to apply even for first timers. Roll on very thin and tip with throw away brush.
    Don't overwork with brush. One pass is best.Let the paint flow.
    You'll need to add thinner if paint thickens on you.  If brush
    starts to drag throw in away and get a new one. You'll need
    three coats on most colors, maybe more YMMV. Let dry overnight and sand with 220-320 grit, clean and apply next coat.
    It goes fast, as my wife and I could do one side of our 34'
    sailboat in about 30 min.

    Pettit Easy Poxy;
    Not as durable  as above but a lot cheaper.
    Application is basically the same. Keep coats thin and always use their brushing thinner. They say you only need in hot weather-don't believe them.
    Also you can mix colors to get what you want i.e. black and white to get any shade of gray. I did a very light gray on a deck that came out nice.
    I've also added a hardner that improved durability but I can't remember what type or brand. Do some research or
    ask around.
    Depending on where you are I may be able to save you some money on Awlgrip unless company has changed policy.

    That's all- I'm out of breath.
     

  3. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    rolling and tipping awlgrip - there should be a crime against it !! it's a waste of a fine product,a fine expensive product...i promise you,you will never get the results you're looking for by rolling and tipping...

    if you don't have the equipment,i suggest you take the boat to a shop and have it done for you...

    otherwise,just buy a cheap,low quality paint like rustoleum,bright side,or other cheap single part paint,and roll it...

    others will tell you similar results as spraying can be obtained by rolling and tipping -that's not true,and do not fall for the "it's who's behind the brush" line...if you want results like these ? the product needs to be sprayed,results like these are not possible by rolling and tipping...
    this is a console i recently sprayed in awlgrip
    [​IMG]

    this is a 13 whaler i finished a while ago...again,awlgrip sprayed...
     
  4. tightloops1900

    tightloops1900 I Love microskiff.com!

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    What kind of sprayer is needed? I can prob borrow a compresure.
     
  5. texmac

    texmac I Love microskiff.com!

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    Sorry but rolling and tipping awlgrip is done every day on
    private yachts well over 100 ft plus. I've personally sold
    thousands of dollars worth of awlgrip and all was rolled and tipped. You don't want overspray on all that teak deck. I've seen yachts get name changes at the dock-no spray.


    Now all of the paint I sold was for routine maintenance not an overall paint job but it had to match-and it did. A total
    repaint of my best customers "boat" ran 1.1-1.2 million and was done every 5-6 years.Their last refit at Fedship took
    18 months and 12 million dollars.

    If tipping and rolling didn't work,these folks would find something that would. :)

    Also my sailboat looked damn good even when I sold it 7
    years after I painted it. And boat yards in Florida
    don't allow owners to spray their boats. How do all those
    30-50ft  boats get nice paint jobs?? Make a guess. ;)
     
  6. tightloops1900

    tightloops1900 I Love microskiff.com!

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    I will be painting a johnsen skiff, I'm not looking for a perfect paint job, just want it to last! I am a little worried about color because I want to use awlgrips flag blue-hull and moon dust-deck and floor!
     
  7. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    I agree with Barbless, people roll and tip boats every day and if done correctly it looks great.

    I would not roll and tip in temps over 85. I've done one part paint in as high as 95 degrees and even with the recommended thinner it is hard. Even in cooler temps I still use thinner and I've had to adjust from one coat to the next. In between coats I sand with 220, and then 320 before the final coat, then wipe and tack.

    Kreepa, do all awlgrip jobs that are sprayed have that much orange peel? Is that just a characteristic of the paint?
     
  8. texmac

    texmac I Love microskiff.com!

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    Dark blue is not a color you want to start with; very difficult to roll and tip but not impossible. You could do the deck in the lighter color, see how that works and proceed from there. You can also do a test pattern with the blue and see if it looks ok.

    Another option is automotive base coat/clear coat. Do you have a friend that has a friend that has a friend that paints
    cars? You can shoot the hull sides in your front yard and it will look great. I shot my last skiff with black bc/cc and it turned out very nice. Check around there's more than one way to paint a skiff.

    ps: most of your high performance boats are painted with
    bc/cc and it holds up nicely. I've got a little sanger flat
    that will get bc/cc in a couple months right out in my driveway :cool:
     
  9. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    that's reflections - there's a 4' drum fan running in front of lights...
     
  10. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    there's a big difference between,doing a "white out" job on teak - brushing the awlgrip is the technique used most often for this-the awlgrip is brushed,versus sprayed - big difference between doing this and painting the hull of a boat...

    painting a name's much different too...

    again,if this is the end result you're looking for


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    rolling and tipping will NEVER give this result...it may look "good",but "good" is a relative term - think of it as "taste",some people like cajun food,some do not - what may look "good" to you,may not appear that way to some one else...i've seen many "rolled and tipped" boats,and i've yet to see one that looked like it was sprayed...

    i've done and seen a few "white out" jobs - "white out" jobs are when the teak toe rails,etc,are sanded,coated in west system epoxy,primed and coated in awlgrip,to match the hull - these jobs are usually done by brushing the awlgrip - it looks sweet,and it avoids the constant upkeep of teak - however,it will never have the flawless appearence of the hull's sides...


    no yard i'm aware of,will allow ANY owners to spray ANY paint in their yard.the potential for problems is huge - it's a giant liability for yard owners...

    awlgrip,as well as any 2 part paint requires certain saftey equipment be used - the vapors are deadly - most DIY people do not have this required equipment...

    if you're looking for just a decent paint job - nothing spectacular - just roll it out in a sngle part paint - it's less than a third of the price of a 2 part like awlgrip,no sense wasting money and a good product,if you're not looking for a mirror like finish...think of like buying a bently to tow the skiff with,when a ford explorer will do just as good a job,just not look as good ;)
     
  11. tightloops1900

    tightloops1900 I Love microskiff.com!

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    Kreepa what's the best paint to roll and tip?
     
  12. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    that's a trick question...

    i've never rolled and tipped anything,sprayed,and brushed awlgrip...
    i've only "rolled" decks and coverboards...

    ask yourself this question:

    "do i want a perfect job" ?

    you're saying you want to paint a dark color - dark colors will "show" everything,as in every flaw...

    light colors are more "forgiving" - that's a point to remember...

    if you're looking for something that looks good,and it's gonna last,and you're not looking at spending alot of money - use a single part paint - roll it and be done with it...

    not really sure what awlgrip "retails" for -i wanna say it's around $400 for a gallon of awlgrip,brushing/rolling kicker and thinner - there's different kickers - brushing/rolling kicker and spray kicker - these mix at different rates...
    a single part paint - it's around $25 a qt - that's a huge difference huh ?

    not trying to talk anyone out of anything,nor am i trying to force my opinion down anyone's throat - but,applying an expensive top coat,such as awlgrip,over a hull that's not really prepped for it,"prepped" meaning,it's got flaws,may not be the best option,the end result may not be what you wished for,nor what you paid for either - if you're gonna drop that kind of coin for a product,you want it to be applied in the best method available,over top of the best surface you can get - this way,the end result will be what you wished for.again,a "20' paint job",is what it is,a paint job that looks great at 20',get closer and the appearence changes dramatically...
    i promise you,a rolled and tipped job may look "good",and again,"good" is a relative term,it will NEVER have the appearence of a sprayed job,anyone that states it does is wrong...
     
  13. tightloops1900

    tightloops1900 I Love microskiff.com!

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    How much would you paint my hull for?
    Maybe that's the question I should be asking?
     
  14. texmac

    texmac I Love microskiff.com!

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    "White out job on teak" I never said that and was not talking about 'teak". Please read again. Also I said "name change" not name paint. Changing the name entails sanding off old name-repainting area to match hull color and then someone comes in and paints the "name". Again please read carefully. Your boat looks good but I've seen better roll and tip paint jobs on dark colors.  And for someone who has never rolled and tipped Awlgrip you seem to know an awful lot about it. Just saying. :)
     
  15. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    we'll agree to disagree...i know about different techniques,this is my buisness,i better know what i'm talking about.
     
  16. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    The other pictures you posted still show a ton of orange peel from what I can see, the reflection is how you can see it. I'm just saying back in the day if I painted a car and it came out like that I'd have to respray it. Maybe that is just how all awlgrip jobs come out?
     
  17. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    it's reflections - i'm leaving the house now,headed to the shop - i'll grab a few pictures of that console - there's no orange peel,or fish eyes on it...
     
  18. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Tightloops - you should add where you live to your info so people can assist youl locally.

    From my own personal experience here is what I know:
    *A roll and tip method will never give or achieve the results of a spray.
    *Never - as a backyard painter- spray awlgrip - ever.
    *Dark colors show every flaw.
    *If I want a show boat I will pay someone.  If I have a utility boat I will do it myself.

    If I needed a paint job I would hire a professional. If I lived in NJ I would hire Kreepa and in Miami I would hire paint it black.  I live in Tampa so I guess I won't be hiring either.  But then again I don't think they want to paint with oil based camo.

    FC- were your last comments really necessary? They have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread and they certainly were not of any value to others seeking assistance on how to paint.
     
  19. tightloops1900

    tightloops1900 I Love microskiff.com!

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    Ducknut I also live in the Tampa bay area, I just want something that will look halfway decent! I don't think I can afford to hire a professional to paint my boat. I would really like achieve the best results as possible, but this is also my first boat build so if it dosnt look like 1,000,000 bucks I think I would be ok. As long as she poles skinny and catches fish. I was doing some research on rolling and tippin lastnight and seen quite a few boats that were rolled and tipped that looked better than I thought they would.
     
  20. AfterHours2

    AfterHours2 Stripper in my own Mind!

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    You CAN get decent results rolling and tipping but I would not suggest using a high quality paint like awlgrip. Your just wasting good product that IMHO should be sprayed. If you want to experiment spraying then I suggest you visit a local paint/body supplier and see if they have any remnant or mistint quarts they would sell so you can practice. Its really not hard to produce a high quality spray job once you get your thinning, pressure and spray pattern down. Get yourself a cheap cup gun and compressor and try it out. Start out with low pressure and thin coats. Don't try to cover in one coat or you will end up with hella runs and sags. Until then, rolling and tipping is fine as long as your happy with a mediocre finish... Good luck