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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Wow - you guys give me hope for the human race. Many thanks for the thoughts, but not sure what extra help could do. I only have one riveter. For the record, I live in Floral City, about 30 miles SW of Ocala.

When I did the seat, it was an education. Drilling a rivet out isn't as simple as I'd thought - it's really difficult to drill accurately in the center of the rivet, even after marking it with a snap punch and I wound up with a couple of ovaled holes. They're 5/32", so drilled them to 3/16' and used that size rivets and all was well.. This time, the head of the rivet will already be gone, so it might be easier to get them centered. "Might" even be able to punch them on thru with a center punch. We'll see. Got lots to practice on, but want to be very sure not to dimple the metal.

I may also experiment with using a dull chisel to tap the tail of the rivet sideways and see if I can pop them loose that way. I have some 5/32 and 3/16 Clecos and they help enormously in keeping things lined up and positioning the layers for riveting.

Between 1996 and 2006, I built a small 2 seat airplane - Kolb Mk III - and became very familiar with Clecos then. Very handy gadgets.

Also working on the seat, I found that the standard little pliers type riveter is about useless for the heavier rivets with steel shanks. They hold far more solidly, you bet, but are nearly impossible to squeeze.....I bent the handles on one riveter. Sooo, I bought a 17" two fisted monster rivet popper for <$20 from Harbor Freight and that thing bangs them out tout suite.....even with my now flimsy old arms.

I'm thinking that once I get it set up, it'll be a one day job. I hope. Don't even want to think about stress cracks. Haven't seen any.....yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I'm sure I don't need to tell you that it would not be a bad idea to put a dab of 5200 on each rivet before inserting.
Hadn't figured on 5200, but do have a tube of 100% silicone that I plan on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Surely there is a neighbor kid who needs a little pocket money. Bucking rivets does not require much skill.

Also, you can replace rivets with screws and nuts if the whole bucking thing can’t get figured out.
Sad to say, the neighborhood kids I've seen here are either sloppy fat couch potatoes/video gamers or meth heads. I don't want either near me or my stuff. I'm a lifetime loner anyway. 2 young guys across the street are alternately in and out of jail for theft. I "really" don't want them around.

The other neighbors are all very old retirees and have so far (9 months) been very anti-social. Wave and say "hello" when I'm walking my dog and they turn their backs. Fugem. I'm a retiree, too - 79 in 3 weeks, but still strong and active. Don't have anything in common with any of them.
 

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smooth headed low profile rivets are going to have less drag and turbulence in the water than pop rivets.
 

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I had an aluminum deck in mine 2 different hulls. Cracked every rib on both of them more than once. Split the hull a few times and welded it back shut.
Did a lot of rivets and more times than not i thru bolted aluminum plates with 5200 under the deck.

Loved my Jon boats.
Stupid skinny and cross wet mud many a day.
 

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Oh man flashbacks to when I was running a 30 year old 1965 14’ Mon Ark that was riveted. I ran it all out all the time and often on Calcasieu lake when it was rolling. That pounding took its toll on the rivets to the point that I took to calling the boat “The Sieve”. Great memories in that boat though. It was fishy
 

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Ditch the silicone caulking for hull work and buy a tube of 5200... It will serve you better (even if it is a pain to work with and clean up...).
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I got the boat off the trailer and flipped today, then after doing a few rivets I read Bob's rec. to use 5200. Welll....don't see anything wrong with silicone but I'll bow to Bob's experience, so I stopped and will pick up some 5200 tomorrow. Lots of other stuff to do and also have come up with new questions. I wonder now just what I've gotten myself into.

Plant Rectangle Wood Tints and shades Road surface


Notice that the rivets across the transom are all intact and appear to be in good condition.

Wood Rectangle Font Tints and shades Ceiling


Just a few inches away, 4 of the new closed end rivets are in place here and they really suck the layers in tight. Note that the original rivet is about the same contour as the new ones, so drag shouldn't be a factor. I'll also be very careful to fill the hollows with 5200 to try and reduce galvanic action between the aluminum rivet and it's steel core. That original rivet is solid. Scratch it and it's shiny. OK, fine. But.....

Look at those to the right of the new ones. See how the heads are eaten away ?? Press a chisel against one and press lightly and the head peels off like cheese. The one next to it may or may not be solid. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason to it. This is completely beyond my experience and I've never even heard of such a thing. There are 65 rivets missing the heads completely and over 100 eaten away as above. I had 29 - 3/16" rivets left from the seat project and ordered 50 more today.....and will be ordering more. Many more.

What on earth could cause this ?? If it'd sat in salt water for years or some such, I'd expect "all" of the rivets to be damaged. The boat is 16 ft long. The front 10 ft and the transom are in very good shape with almost no bad ones. The rear 6 ft, except for transom is almost destroyed. ?????

Question - different subject - The head bolts on the 2008 Suzuki DF25 V-twin look like big Torx heads - male side - and are <10mm across the outside of the flutes. What are those things called and where do you find sockets to fit them ?? Came up blank at O'Reilly's.
 

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I’d guess that you’ve had a previous rivet repair if you’re finding different kinds of rivets… Great entertainment value but means you’ll have to pay close attention to your repair. You haven’t mentioned finding any sheet metal cracking. If so, that’s good news…
 

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Since you’re likely replacing almost all the rivets on the bottom, start removing rivets on one side of each rib over a good distance, then put a bead of 5200 (or West G650) into each seam before you fasten the new rivets. When one side is done move to the other side and repeat. Sealing the seams that way will make for a stouter repair and no leaking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Since you’re likely replacing almost all the rivets on the bottom, start removing rivets on one side of each rib over a good distance, then put a bead of 5200 (or West G650) into each seam before you fasten the new rivets. When one side is done move to the other side and repeat. Sealing the seams that way will make for a stouter repair and no leaking.
What you're saying makes sense, but a factor I didn't mention is that the rivets in the ribs are mostly OK. It's the ones in the keel and longitudinal strakes that are bad....which is a great relief. I installed indoor/outdoor carpet on the floor with a gap down the middle and it'd be a job getting it loose.

What Bob said about different types of rivets made me sit back a bit. The damage is so extensive, I really doubt it's from a repair, but maybe Starcraft uses a different type of rivet for those external strakes.....?? In my 2nd picture, look at the rivet I'm comparing the new ones to, then compare it to those to the right of my new ones. They look entirely different.

Hah....then again, many of the longitudinal ones are good - esp. those in the front 2/3 of the boat. I dunno....but it's a job of work.....and a PIA.
 

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none of the rivets in our StarCrafts (1967 14 foot and 1990 something 20 ft) have rivets with holes in them. rivets with holes are likely pop rivets. I've never seen a boat with those.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
none of the rivets in our StarCrafts (1967 14 foot and 1990 something 20 ft) have rivets with holes in them. rivets with holes are likely pop rivets. I've never seen a boat with those.
These are very definitely not pop rivets. Looking over the hull, you can see the various stages of disintegration. That's what has me so puzzled - why is one rivet pristine and the one next to it eaten away ??

Wood Grey Rectangle Road surface Composite material


Maybe this will make my point better. I hit those 2 on the strake with a wire wheel this morning and they are in good shape. The one between is badly eroded. Look closely - it is clearly "not" a pop rivet. The 2 to the left of them are in good shape. The 7 to the right are clearly in various stages of erosion. Why aren't they all corroding or whatever ?? Why one and not the next ??

As said, the front 2/3 of the hull is fine. The transom is fine. The ones right in front - adjoining - the transom are gone.....but they don't leak. The rivet tails (or whatever they're called) are still solid in the hull sheeting. I tried to knock a couple loose with a hammer and dull chisel and they wouldn't move - but the heads were gone. Go figure.

I picked up a tube of 5200 today and have 100 more closed end rivets on order. We'll get 'er. This thing's gonna be the toughest, tightest old Starcraft on the water, you bet. Now for that motor.....😢
 

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with that many rivets bad pop rivets are not going to give you structural integrity IMHO. there is a lot of stress on a hull esp running in chop. I would look for another boat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
You're clearly not familiar with aluminum pop rivets with steel shanks. They are a much different thing than the little aluminum poppers your wife keeps in her sewing kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
You're clearly not familiar with aluminum pop rivets with steel shanks. They are a much different thing than the little aluminum poppers your wife keeps in her sewing kit.
I think I sounded a little smart-ass in that reply and that wasn't my intent. I wanted to make the point that the 3/16" steel shank aluminum pop rivets are a very strong, solid, heavy duty component - much different from the little 1/8" all-aluminum poppers. (just try popping a few of them with a little pliers type hand squeezer) I should have said, "I don't think you're familiar....."

I bought a tube of 5200 and installed the 25 rivets I had on hand yesterday. I'm pleased and impressed with the way it's coming along - I used them along the aft keel and it is ROCK solid. I learned a couple of tricks while I was at it, too, that I'll go into more later. 50 more will be here tomorrow and an additional 50 on Monday.

Meanwhile, I pulled the left head of the motor yesterday and the news is about as bad as it can get. A 1/8" x 3/8" hole is blown in the top of the cylinder, just above the liner. Not sure if a repair is possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I took a picture of the inside of the boat today......

Rectangle Wood Grey Road surface Beige


The left side is the starboard chine, right side is the keel. You can see the 5200 coated rivets holding the keel strip on. Chine rivets are fine, keel rivets are not.
 
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