Patio decks anyone?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by firecat1981, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    Been kicking around building a wood deck for a few years now and looks like we might be moving forward. It has been many years since I have done one. Anyone have a decent amount of time on them? I'm not interested in composites, just good ol PT wood.

    I'm sure I'll have a few more questions, but my first is what wood do you perfer? 5/4 deck boards? or 2x6's? I'm leaning more towards the 2x6's.

    What spacing do you like? 16" on center?

    Do you lay plastic on the ground under the deck? Never done this but someone suggested it.

    What spacing do you like for your footings? Every 10ft?
     
  2. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    2x4 deck boards, doesn't cup as much over time,
    avoids ponding so less algae/mildew growth.
    Stainless screws, proper diameter footers.
    Check if you need a permit from the building dept.
    Used commercial weed barrier underneath.
    Water soaks through, no mosquito breeders that way.

    Pulled our design off line to build it properly.
    Plenty of websites that offer free plans.
     

  3. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    What size deck are you going to build? Do you have a sketch? Are there staires and how many? Will it be attached to your house? I like 5/4 deck boards on framing spaced 16"oc, space the decking tight it will shrink. When (not if) it starts twisting deck boards hide it better so you dont get trippers. If I can help with a layout send me some rough dimentions and I would be happy to help anyway I can :)
     
  4. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    5/4 you would need 12"; 16" for 2x. I would use 8' footers.

    No plastic as it holds water. Also slope the ground to ensure water runs away from the house (2" per 10').

    Treated wood will shrink after and will exaggerate the spaces and need to seal a few weeks after it has had time to bleach out in the sun. Even with treated there is a limited lifespan before it looks bad - composit is forever.

    You can use the composit fasteners so you don't have screws showing.
     
  5. fishicaltherapist

    fishicaltherapist I Love microskiff.com!

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    On the $$$$$$ Ducknut! I speak from personal experience.
     
  6. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    Not sure what size deck just yet, I'm thinking either 12x20' or maybe even 16x20' if funds allow. I may add on to it later and do a multi level. The ground slopes away fairly well already, one side will be at my existing concrete patio slab, near ground level. The opposing side will be 7-10" off the ground depending on what size I go with. My footers would be the typical 12" diameter, 18" deep.

    I don't plan on stairs on the far end, just a simple rectangle deck. I'm basically going to do this to extend my existing patio instead of having a slab poured (we just got estimates for that :eek:). I grew up with decks up north and always loved the look, reminds me of docks, which reminds me of water, which reminds me of boats and fishing :).

    Brett, why 2x4's instead of 2x6's? just for the cupping?

    How much spacing do you guys like? I know in the past I've used 1/8", to much?

    Composites are out, too pricey for now. And we know of 2 decks built in the last few years, from 2 different companies and both are having issues. Fading and molding within weeks of install. Not saying they are all bad, but like anything else, all things are not created equal.

    Thanks guys
     
  7. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    Pouring a slab may be about the same the price of wood is skyrocketing. If you are in an area with new construction hunt a crew down and pay cash you maybe able to pour it in overages if you dont mind doing it in a couple pours. One yard sould get you 80sq ft of slab. Follow any of the above tips and you wont be sorry. Is that elevation the top of the deck over grade? I entered the business in 1977 as a carpenter and have permitted and built decks to many specs from grade to almost 20 of the ground from corn fields to beachfront last one was a boat dock 3 weeks ago :) lots of opinions several good take your pick :)
     
  8. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    We've been getting quotes for the slab, 18x12', and it's been between $1300 to $1700. I know I can build a bigger deck then that for under a grand. They finished up the building in my area so the crews are gone for now. Also I have a fence installed so they would need a pump truck, or wheel barrow to get it back there.

    The elevation I figured is roughly from the bottom of the joists. I'll have to dig out a bit to get a ledger board in there, but it won't be too bad.

    Pathfinder I may pick your brain since you know Fl building codes so well. I do want it permitted in case we need to screen it in later.
     
  9. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    Pick away but dont get any bugars on your fingers :D I wanted to change my post some it comes across a bit arogant :-[sorry I love it
     
  10. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    I didn't think it sounded arrogant at all, you obviously have done this a time or 2 and know your stuff.

    Been thinking some of this out. For a 12x20, I figure doubled 2x6x12's for the beams, with the joint offset 2' in either direction (4' space total between), I'll need 8. For the joists set at 16"oc I'll need 15. So 23 total 2x6x12's for the framing.
    Then if I go with the standard 5/4x6x12's for decking I'll need roughly 40.
    So if that all sounds right, and I go with Home depot's prices that will cost me around $470 in wood. Not too bad, if my figures are right, lol. Hangers, deck screws, concrete.... a few hundred more maybe?
     
  11. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Reconsider. Calculate the cost per sq ft for 8, 10, & 12' and buy the best value. Reason is that you are going to have to cut them anyway so why cut expensive ones. Also you have to cut to stagger butt joints.

    For the spacing - the width of a nail is adequate.
     
  12. fsae99

    fsae99 I Love microskiff.com!

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    5/4 is what I'd use, you do need to place cup side down though (this should be done with 2 X lumber as well no matter how slight the cup). If you can not see a cup then place your speed square on the board and it will reveal it.

    ON the spacing question, there should be NONE with PT lumber. I have built 1,000's of sq ft of deck with PT any gap will be huge after a few months, 2x lumber is going to shrink worse that 5/4 . Since you are building near ground level I recommend taking a 2X4 and wedge decking tight to each other. It is prettiest to string line your first board and be very very anal about straightness, string line every 4-5 boards . Any crookedness will get magnified as you go unless you gap then it will be ugly. Start with the straightest decking you can get, I know it sucks but had pick if needed or send back and crowned pieces.

    16" OC joist are fine.

    Weeds are going to be your enemy. Unless you can get ground to slope enough which sounds like it is not possible do not use plastic. Use a weed barrier and do not cheap out on it.

    Either way you are most likely to need some fill after removing grass so it is not a bowl.

    Back in the day the old timers would, while not PC or EC use a 2:1 of diesel and motor oil sprayed on dirt after grass removed will keep things from growing for 25 years or so. I'm not talking gallons here think quarts for 250-300 sq ft. Then cover with weed barrier and light covering of rocks.
     
  13. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    Good tips, and lots to think about. I'll definitely have to dig down a little bit and then level things to avoid drainage issues. What about installing a french drain/drain pipe?

    Also whats the best way to build the beams? is staggering the butts a few feet like I said before ok? Do you just screw the 2x's together in a staggered pattern?

    For the deck boards that are butted, do you just split them on the joists and screw the ends down? Or do you need to add additional support?

    I was figuring on good quality deck screws, instead of nails, I assume predrilling is recommended to avoid splits?
     
  14. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    I will draw you a layout it will have joist layout etc...what is your schedule? What municipality will be issuing the permit the layout will need to be included with permit app for most municipalities but some have boiler plate plans to hand out .If you are going to plan on screening the room later put screen over joist prior to decking to keep the little critters from getting in. I don't see pre drilling 5/4 pt just use good screws I like a teflon coated deck screw. To get proper crown look at the end of the board and always put the heart of the grain down. Lot's of good guy's here if we lived close we could knock it out in no time :)
     
  15. fsae99

    fsae99 I Love microskiff.com!

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    Any supporting member should be/must be joined on top of support post.

    If you go with 5/4 butt decking together in middle of joist, if you 45 or ship lab them they will crack/split in anywhere from a few month to few years. 2X can be 45'd, butt joining will best longevity here as well.

    I prefer larger head spiral nails. If you are going to screw yes pre-drill with with counter sink bit. Do not go deep with counter sink but enough for head of screw. Make sure to set your screwdriver clutch so that you do not run screws to deep.
     
  16. camp

    camp I Love microskiff.com!

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    just to be a pain in the butt how about pavers? Heavy..... but not that hard if you have a good rental place near by, a wheel barrow and a strong back. I'm a big believer in no maintanance.
     
  17. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    Not a big fan of pavers, they look nice if done well, but they still feel like concrete. They do require yearly maintenance if you want to keep them looking nice just like a deck.

    Thanks Pathfinder, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

    What exactly do you mean by this, I wasn't planning on any posts being used. I was going to anchor the beams directly to the footers. Here's a link of something like I was thinking about.
    http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=Building_Ground-level&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
     
  18. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    In my opinion your link step 3 is all wrong. Step 5 shows the outer supporting beam suspended in air - no support whatsoever on the outside edges.
     
  19. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    How is it wrong, or how would you do it? And step 5 shows the beam mounted and the rim joist being installed, how else would you do it?
     
  20. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Look at the picture again and try to figure out where it is being supported. I only see a simple tin bracket and maybe a nail. The other side is supported by the cement column but it runs past the column.

    Make the 90 degree joint in the center of the cement column - like Jim said.
     
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