Pathfinder 17T Fuel Starvation

Discussion in 'Power it up with Electronics' started by kaioticone, May 29, 2011.

  1. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    Installed new Fuel Water Separator and Inline Fuel Filter, and now have starvation
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    The day before yesterday I installed a fuel water separator, and inline fuel filter. I had been running the boat with out one, a minimum of 50 hours. I'm not sure how long the previous owner ran without one. After installation I am suffering fuel starvation, any help would be appreciated.

    This is under the bow hatch. I have an 18 Gallon Aluminum Tank. The fitting at the bottom of the picture is the fitting on the top, right side of the fuel tank.
    [​IMG]

    This photo is of the inline fuel filter, sitting on top of one of the rod tubes, the arrow on the filter is pointed away from the tank => to engine. This filter has never fully filled with fuel, and I am not sure if it is suppose to. I apologize for the blurry photo, but you can just make out the level of fuel currently in the filter. I have never seen more fuel in it, than what is pictured, even after/during WOT.
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for your help in advance. This is one of the best communities on the internet.

    ED: Also, what can I use to clean below deck, it seems to have a good bit of mold/grease/muck in there.

    Woops** Wrong Forum!! Please move from Electronics
     
  2. cvilt

    cvilt I Love microskiff.com!

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    Just a shot here but if you just added the filter could it be full of water? Take it off and dump it into a jar and look for water :-/. Someone here will have help for you :) How do you likr your 17? I like fishing my 15 but the saltwatershowers get a little old :D
     

  3. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    I'll go out and give it a check. Thanks.

    I love my 17T, it does exactly what I want it to, so I guess it would be hard to be disappointed in that. I have definitely been out on days you most definitely should not have been out on, in a 17ft flats boat. It seriously felt like some sort of bad Disney ride.. water just constantly drenching my buddy and me, even at idle speed. The weather report said the wind was 10mph out of the east, after getting out there I felt totally lied to. It was easy blowing 15, with gusts to 25. Just crossing the Manatee river was hellacious. I was drenched from head to toe, and really just felt like going home after the beating. As the day went on though the conditioned improved, and it turned out some pretty good fishing. 
     
  4. Apeacock

    Apeacock I Love microskiff.com!

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    Good afternoon.

    Based on what I can see I would re-configure your fuel water separator "in" and "out" lines, they should be off-set instead of inline.

    I had a fuel starvation issue on my '99 60 Yamaha and it was the anti-siphon valve. Based on what I have researched this is a common problem with the 17T's.

    Hope this helps.

    Talbot
     
  5. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    I'm loosing day light at the moment or I'd go do that now. Although looking through the fuel water separator, it appeared if I didn't use those two parallel ports, I wouldn't get any fuel at all, nor would the fuel reach the filter. Perhaps there are small ports that cannot be seen while looking through.

    In any case I will give this a try, and hopefully make it out for a test run sometime tomorrow afternoon.
     
  6. swaddict

    swaddict Thread Killer

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    What Talbot said about the lines not being parallel, also when I installed my fuel/water separator I removed the view thru filter all together (may be part of the issue). Replace the anti siphon valve, also clean fuel filter by motor (if equipped).
     
  7. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    Thanks for the replies, I'm going to get to work on it, I will post back if I have issues.
     
  8. Swamp

    Swamp I Love microskiff.com!

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    Is your separator not a filter in it's own right? Adding both an inline and a separator/filter may restrict too much. Just a guess.

    Swamp
     
  9. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    There is no reason for both. Also, adding a plastic filter in the fuel line is asking for trouble.

    Too many chances for air leaks.

    The fitting at the tank (from the factory) is an anti-siphon valve with a ball in it. Ditch it, it's a known cause of problems with this boat. A $10 part, or replace it with a new pipe thread to flare hose barb fitting for $2 and never worry again. Mine and just about everyone else's had the anti-siphon valve go bad. Symptoms were that it would run WOT for a short period then die. Restart and run fine all day unless you ran WOT then it would shut down.

    Replace that cheap canister filter with the tall blue Yamaha 10-micron filter/water separator and ditch the plastic filter. No need for both. Be sure to double-check all clamps and fittings are tight.

    I ditched my anti-siphon valve at the tank pickup all together and just went with a pipe to hose barb fitting which is the shiny new brass fitting at the fuel tank pickup in below pic:
    [​IMG]

    Fuel filter:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. gps526s

    gps526s I Love microskiff.com!

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    check anti-siphon valve, clamps for air suction, no need for in-line fuel filter, change to 10-micron fuel filter (with clear bowl i like racor) marpac sells one with a racor filter. i see space might be limited i know racor sells a mini one a few yrs ago don't know if still avail. as said in above posts

    my .02 make sure fuel hose has not collapsed on the inside
     
  11. gps526s

    gps526s I Love microskiff.com!

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    check anti-siphon valve, clamps for air suction, no need for in-line fuel filter, change to 10-micron fuel filter (with clear bowl i like racor) marpac sells one with a racor filter. i see space might be limited i know racor sells a mini one a few yrs ago don't know if still avail. as said in above posts

    my .02 make sure fuel hose inner wall has not collapsed. use a portable fuel tank to test.
     
  12. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    Thank you so much for the detail of your post Tom.

    I moved the lines to the fuel water separator so they are not parallel yesterday, and prior to that I removed the anti siphon valve, and inspected it against a new one I had purchased, both valves were the same in function. So I returned it for my 15$. (It was slightly to big anyways), and put the old one back on. It didn't have any debris in it, and moved freely when I blew through it. Aren't Anti Siphon valves required by USCG? Perhaps that is on boats of xx+ size?

    I will remove the plastic in line fuel filter today. Can I use automotive fuel lines? (Same inner Diameter, but they are a bit more flexible) If I get a quick response I can zip over to pep boys and re run the fuel line before dark. as if I remove that inline filter, I don't think i will have enough fuel line to reach the separator... but I might. They didn't have any of the Yamaha filters at West Marine... the only marine supply shop I know of in Bradenton. I will have to order one and will do so tonight.

    @dolss16 Yesterday when I was looking over my fittings, they did seem slightly loose, and not positioned very well. I thoroughly tightened them and planed for a test run today, but just didn't feel up to it. I'm going to look them over again now as well.

    Thank you very much for the help, it is very much appreciated, this is my first boat, and I really want to make it nice. Owned for just under a year now. Think I bought it last July.

    Heading out to work on it now. Thanks again!


    ED: Fuel Line is about 3 inches short, go figure. Any quick replies about using pep-boys automotive fuel lines?
     
  13. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Need to use USCG approved fuel lines,
    Type A1-15 ( rated for E15 fuel )

    examples:

    http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page487.html
     
  14. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    Thanks for reply Brett, saved me a trip! I'll report back once I get the correct fuel line, and take her out for a test run. Since I'm stuck on the starvation problem for tonight, I'm going to jump over to the wiring for the remainder.

    Thanks for the help guys.
     
  15. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    As Brett said, use the right fuel line and don't buy cheap stuff!!!!!!! The lining will disintegrate quickly and you'll be in a world of trouble.

    As another poster mentioned the Racor filter I'll tell you my experience, and this is after 20+ years of using Racor filters on every boat: Once Ethanol became prevalent, I had a fuel issue that just wouldn't go away. Called Yamaha and they said their new tall blue canister is a better filter/seperator that the Racor units with the bowl, and they recommended I switch. I did, and my issues went away.

    Not saying it'll work for everyone, but after going through what I went through I'm a convert now. Hate to say it, but it's true.
     
  16. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    I ordered the Yamaha 10 Micron Filter-- $14 not to shabby. Yeah a few of the shorter pieces of the current fuel system were automotive cheap stuff. So took it all out tonight, and tried to make it to West Marine before they closed to get a replacement, but didn't make it, so that will wait until tomorrow.

    On another note:

    I have an aluminum tank, and some of the fuel that came out of the line was a dark brown... pretty much rust color. Which definitely concerns me. The tank is practically dry currently, less than a 1/4th of a tank. Is this something I should be worried about? ED: I understand fuel is "tea" colored.
     
  17. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    If I were you I'd siphon that tank manually, with a short piece of clear hose.

    And, the benefit of a small skiff with a 40hp is that it's not gonna burn a ton of gas. So....if it were me and I wanted to avoid issues, I'd run only non-ethanol gas in it. Trailer it to a marina or bring a few 5-gallon cans to a marina and fill it up. These boats don't burn a lot of gas so it'll probably cost you less than $3 to $5 per trip additional to run the good gas, and your boat will be trouble-free.

    After you are done fishing start the motor on a pair of muffs with the hose running and give it a good freshwater rinse. Pull the fuel hose while it's running and let it run completely out of gas between trips and you'll be laughing at the guys at the dock who can't start their motors because of E-fuel laying in the carbs and tank.

    -T
     
  18. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    Just to add a little to Toms last note, after the motor stalls from running it dry on fuel, you must drain the carb bowls also
     
  19. gps526s

    gps526s I Love microskiff.com!

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    here's what i did. the 90hp Yamaha 2 stroke was seized up when i purchased the boat pumped out the fuel installed a racor filter. pumped 4 gal of fresh gas and 4x dose of fuel treatment drove around town for 15min to slosh around in the tank went home and pumped it all out. i only did this one time tank looked good after one time and so did the fuel as i pumped it out.filled the tank all the way up added double dose of fuel treatment. took boat to mechanic to have a new powerhead and carbs installed currently has 15 hours
    hope this helps
     
  20. kaioticone

    kaioticone I Love microskiff.com!

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    I got rained out for my planned maintenance today... it hasn't rained in what seems like weeks, I have today off and planned to get so much done fuel/electrical... and of course it pours down rain. I am going drain the tank when conditions dry up, hopefully it will before sun down. -- I always wondered why the fuel at the docks was more expensive... I had no idea it was pure, none of that ethanol stuff. I will most certainly use that. I have a couple 5 gallon gas cans, which I can run a solid two days of fishing on 5 gallons.

    @Dolss16 That sounds like a good idea considering the color of the fuel that came out of the line. (looked the color of clay-- orange-ish red) I have a ramp and a nice test area not even a mile from my house.

    @Cut Runner, the only engine experience I have is working with huge 2 stroke diesel engines, however I do have a maintenance manual to my engine. I will look up some info on draining the carb bowls.

    Going to pick up my USCG approved fuel line here shortly. Fingers are crossed it dries up so I can get to work. You guys are awesome!

    Thanks*