OK, I'm stumped...

Discussion in 'Outboard Maintenance' started by TomFL, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    Yamaha Pro-V 175, carbed outboard....2-stroke. Simple stuff here. But, having an issue I can't seem to fix.

    The motor starts and runs absolutely perfect. But, run it over ~3600 rpm's and it'll stutter, push it and it'll fall on it's face. Like it's running out of fuel.

    It did this to me a few months ago, then the boat sat for weeks, and I ran it and it went away. Now it's back.

    Recently, both in hopes of correcting the issue and also because it just needed to be done, I've completely re-wired the boat, including new crank battery (Odyssey PC1700), new 2 gauge engine wire (yamaha spec'd size), new fuel pickup, new A1 3/8 fuel line to the filter head, new SS filter head, new Yamaha 10 micron fuel filter, new primer bulb, new line from filter head to ender-cowl engine filter, cleaned engine filter, replaced both fuel pumps, and still nothing.

    The boat starts and idles noticeably crisper since all the updates, but the top-end issue is still there.

    Plugs have less than 15 hours on them.

    Compression is dead-on and even between all 6 cylinders.

    What the heck is going on here?? I'm stumped...

    -T
     
  2. anytide

    anytide Administrator Staff Member

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    does it have any sort of "vacuum" advance timing @ wot ???
    is it computer driven at all ??
    any vacuum issues/leaks ?? :-?
    -anytide
     

  3. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    No computer on this thing..

    Vaccum leak I don't know, don't have a vaccum pump. Triple checked all fittings. Permatex thread sealant on them too.

    Bulb will pump gas, with no leaks.

    Can't see why the issue would have gone away when the boat sat and then come back the second trip I used it.

    Nor why the boat runs perfect below 3500 rpm's.
    -T
     
  4. tom_in_orl

    tom_in_orl Founder of Microskiff, Member of the Gheenoe Army

    I have had similar issues on a 2 stroke motor that were determined to be the timing advance.
     
  5. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    I didn't see anything about the carbs. Maybe a few clogged secondary jets? when were they last services? or cleaned?
     
  6. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    Timing advance would go away and come back though?

    This started months ago as a very slight miss at the top end RPM's, then got worse. I never ran it at WOT as I knew I wanted to replace the fuel system and do electrical work. I let the boat sit for about 2 months with no use, brought a mechainc out with me on a test spin the first time I wanted to get the boat out on the water again, and the issue was gone completely.

    But, next outing on the water, it came back.

    Wondering if I have a cracked float and it's filling with fuel and not floating, or something that's floating around in the bowl that got sucked up in the jet.

    Just don't see it being electrical if it's been intermittent??? But, I've been wrong before... More times than I care to admit!!

    -T
     
  7. makin moves

    makin moves Well-Known Member

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    I had a yami 90 where upper rpms the fuel line was colapsing causing it to do the same thing. just a thought
     
  8. tom_in_orl

    tom_in_orl Founder of Microskiff, Member of the Gheenoe Army

    What you described sounds like a fuel or timing issue. My first thought would have been the bulb or fuel pump but I have also seen that same type of issue with the time advance not working properly.
     
  9. anytide

    anytide Administrator Staff Member

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    thats still what i'm thinking,,the advance could be sticking .vacuum leak or not... -anytide
     
  10. Un-shore

    Un-shore Well-Known Member

    Would this help? run it up to the speed it bogs down and shut it off, pull the plugs and see if there is fuel on them. then you will know if it is fuel starved.
     
  11. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Well-Known Member

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    First things first... Before doing anything else I'd want to eliminate your boat's fuel system as the problem.... That's easily done, bring a portable tank with new fuel and by-pass the boat's entire fuel system, hook up directly and run it. If the same problem occurs you're in motor country, if the thing runs clean and green then you've got an issue with your boat...

    One thing that can screw up a properly running motor is to have just enough trash in the bottom of a fuel tank to clog the pickup when the demand is at its highest... there's also an anti-syphon valve in most large tanks that can occasionally cause difficulty, and one last little fuel tank gremlin, the clogged fuel vent (if a mud dauber makes its nest in your fuel vent it can restrict or stop it up entirely).

    If it does turn out to be your motor, I'd bet on the ignition system breaking down as the rpms get to a given level. That's just a guess on my part, my first move with a suspected motor problem is to find a pro that I trust. He (or she) will have it sorted out in a fraction of the time that I would... Good luck and post up whatever the fix is...
     
  12. MATT

    MATT Well-Known Member

    if your going to take that 2ed fuel tank you may also want to take a can of Seafoam. After testing if you have the same problem add the sea foam and run that spair tank dry. This wil clean any cloged 2ed jets and blow out any build up in your fuel lines that are in the motor it's self. We would do this at the begianing of evey summer with my off shore boats. One full can of Seafoam in about 3 gals of mixed fuel if you don't still use the oil injector sym.
     
  13. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    I will try the spare gas can test, but I wonder where I can find a plastic tank with a 3/8" pickup? Most I've seen are 1/4" I think, which would negate the test.

    Also, I checked the tank vent by blowing into it when I had the tank pickup removed, and there was no pressure buildup at all. I plugged the tank pickup hole, blew into the vent again, and when I let go all the air came back. So I know the vent works OK.

    Have carb kits sitting here in a box, but won't have time to get to it until Monday...

    -T
     
  14. riptide

    riptide Riptide Boat Works N.C.

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    Mabey check your fuel connector from the hose to the motor sometimes they suck air into the system , and when it cuts out does it do it abruptly or does it just break up? If it does cut out abruptly it might be a coil issue
     
  15. bodenhamerb

    bodenhamerb Well-Known Member

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    i had the same issue on a 2001 130 yammi 2joke, it was a dirty carb and as stupid as this sounds when ur trying to get on a plain or when it starts to bog down try pulling the throttle from neutral to full a few times rapidly and just keep doing that until it gets above 3600 and hold it a full and that helped me, also throw some carb cleaner in there
     
  16. TomFL

    TomFL Well-Known Member

    No fitting at the motor on this setup, straight line (with a primer bulb in it of course) from the filter head to the engine's under-cowl fuel filter.

    FI don't like not having a fuel disconnect. Always ran my fuel out after each trip on other boats and never had issues in the past.

    -T
     
  17. topnative2

    topnative2 Well-Known Member

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    check your fuel/water seperator when it happens could be water in the tank/filter and is not letting enough fuel thru at high speed

    or...the "stator/magneto/magnets" (having brain fart)under the fly wheel is defective and the magnets are moving when heated up and throws the timing off----it is hard to determine unless u pull the flywheel immediately after it happens

    or fire it up in the dark and see if there is any fireworks on the motor

    all of the above happened to me over the years
     
  18. joshuabward

    joshuabward I want to go FAST!!!

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    Just fixed an issue on my merc 150 2 stroke (no computer/ carb) that sounds exactly like yours. I know not the same motors but the same technology. Started intermittently missing at high rpms, then progressed to complete bog down past 70% throttle. Mine was a trigger (timing advance under stator)
     
  19. Frank_Sebastian

    Frank_Sebastian Well-Known Member

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    I think Josh may be on to something here. Is the Yamaha using an optical crankshaft sensor?

    Frank_S
     
  20. Mike_Poczik

    Mike_Poczik I Love microskiff.com!

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    Tom, as you know I have the exact thing going on, fuel delivery is perfect, mechanic thought it might be the power pack. Replaced that, still doing it. I ordered new coils today hoping that might be it, but was told exactly what Josh said, that it might be the trigger or stator. I will let you know as soon as the coils come in and I check it out. And like yours mine came and went away then cme back twice as bad. But mine is on a 25 so not as pricey as yours.