[tjtfishon]

Please note lithium batteries have serious hazards associated with them. If they are overcharged, they can catch fire and essentially melt a boat. They have internal charging circuitry that is required to regulate the charging cycle unlike a lead acid battery. A failure in that internal regulator can easily cause a fire. Lithium itself will catch fire when exposed to water as well.

Their have been recent airplane fires due to lithium issues. Samsung notoriously had lithium battery issues that set phones on fire. Lithium batteries are an impressive technology but it is still a new technology that comes with additional risks. Given the rate of equipment failure on a boat (water intrusion, vibration, etc) I would be very cautious about new technology that can effectively sink a boat in seconds.

Also something to keep in mind if a lithium battery catches fire, pretty much nothing puts it out until the entire battery is consumed. A fire extinguisher is of no use.

Not all lithium batteries are the same, nor do they carry the same risks. The current generation of portable lithium power uses a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). This is not a Samsung phone that fits in your pocket. Small electronics such as phones actually use a different electrolyte Lithium hexafluorophosphate (LiPF6) and the plates are much thinner making imperfections and flaws much more likely to cause a short and overheat....and it is still very rare outside of a design flaw in a specific model phone.

 

[PVredfisher]

I am considering adding a TM to my Maverick 17 HPX-V. After speaking with several very reputable installers, most suggest the 24v system which I agree is the safe way to go but to keep all batteries in console I would need to reduce the Reserve min to 80-90 [email protected] Amps for the battery sizes to work.
A 12v system would be the easiest install and I have not ruled that out as I could install one grp 29 battery and get 210 RC min’s
Here’s where I could use help.
Different conditions require different amounts of thrust so to provide a simple comparison, the 55# MK draws 50 amps at max which will burn through a RC 120 battery in one hour. If I go 24v, the MK 80# using 55 lbs of thrust uses 38.5 amps based on 56 max amp draw x 69% of max thrust. In other words, if my math is good, the 80# motor requires roughly 75% of the amps to achieve the same thrust as the 55# motor. I am using terrova numbers here.
When I read comments like “if you fish in wind and current then go 24v” doesn’t that simply translate to more thrust for longer?
It would be great if anyone with my skiff would respond and/or anyone who would set me straight on what I am missing in my analysis.
Thanks

I am running an Ipilot 80# 24V setup on my 17HPXV with two Odyssey PC925 along with odyssey house battery all mounted in center console. Never have any issues with capacity and use to run them most of the day in strong currents fishing Jax.

 

[gkliv2003]

PV redfisher. Would you mind specifying what size odyssey house battery and how you are recharging them? As an update I spoke with a guide here in Charleston this morning who runs a pro w/70 LA and he has the MK 70/24v and uses the pc 1200’s and says he easily goes 6 hours chasing tarpon. Can I assume you also have the 70? And are you recharging house off O/B and TM’s off battery charger?
Thanks and thanks again for those new comments

 

[SC Bill]

I opted for a 12V Riptide PowerDrive 55 with i-Pilot for my Dragonfly Emerger 16'.

I'm using a VMAX XTR34-75 12Volts 75AH Deep Cycle, XTREME AGM Battery.

So far very pleased with the setup. I generally fish during the tidal bite, about a 2-3 hour window. The battery generally has ~65% remaining when I get home. I use a Schmacher 15A smart charger. I don't want the weight of an onboard battery charger. I'm trying to stay as shallow draft as possible.

I try not to discharge below 50% even though deep cycle AGMs can tolerate an 80% discharge on a limited basis.

 

[FSUDrew99]

I would love o go from my MG xi5 12v 55 to a 80lb 24v but don't really want the extra weight and if I did go that route would love to have a single 24v lithium battery.

Jacksonville currents are no jokes as some of you know, but most of FL has no comparison.

Ive had mine on full throttle against a creek current and barely moving.

If youre in the river during a running current you might as well turn it off and float away as you will be doing that with it on full power too.

 

[SC Bill]

I have some strong currents to deal with in the Cape Romain Wildlife Refuge and Bulls Bay area of SC. I don't have any issue with currents and my 12v 55# Riptide on my Emerger. Even against the strongest current, 4 MPH, troller speed 3 1/2 moves me along at fishing speed.

Exactly...not all Li batteries are the same.

If I had the coin, I would have installed the Battle Born 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery for the Riptide. At $949 each (and on sale) I couldn't justify the expense for the boat. But, I have two Battle Born batteries in my Four Wheel Camper, Hawk model which has a solar charging system. They are absolutely superb batteries and are used for trollers as well.

 

[tjtfishon]

PV redfisher. Would you mind specifying what size odyssey house battery and how you are recharging them? As an update I spoke with a guide here in Charleston this morning who runs a pro w/70 LA and he has the MK 70/24v and uses the pc 1200’s and says he easily goes 6 hours chasing tarpon. Can I assume you also have the 70? And are you recharging house off O/B and TM’s off battery charger?
Thanks and thanks again for those new comments

I know a lot of people use odyssey PC batteries...mostly because they are small and light I think, but they are still lead acid chemical reaction batteries and smaller and lighter means less potential energy. Also a PC1200 has 30% more capacity (and weight) than a PC925. The PC batteries are designed for personal watercraft and need to be sealed, extremely durable and able to be mounted in any orientation since they are subject to lots of shock and extreme conditions. Sealed AGM batteries are are ideal for this application.
In a somewhat watertight hatch on a skiff, I've never really seen the NEED for anything more than a wet cell lead acid battery....now, I'm not discounting there are advantages to sealed AGM over wet cell but at a price of perhaps 3x per ah with no weight savings I don't really see much benefit.
Now when you get to Lithium batteries, you get all the benefits of the sealed AGM PLUS you get significant weight savings and the ability to discharge with full output for the entire cycle. I don't really try and convince many people to try Lithium batteries because honestly it probably barely makes financial sense, and the weight savings are probably not necessary for most skiffs...I mean if you have a TM to begin with you aren't exactly a minimalist and the extra 1/2" of draft from heavier batteries isn't going to be that much of a difference maker.
The bottom line is that a standard deep cycle wet cell battery for $80 at Walmart, Sams, Costco or similar is almost always going to be the best financial decision for a power storage solution....but most of us don't own skiffs because they make financial sense...let alone add on the cool stuff to them for that reason

 

[PVredfisher]

Running a PC 1200 house with all charged by a three bank pro sport charger ( house charges by OB as well). Thought about adding a stealth dc charger to the mix to charge the trolling batteries while running, but don’t really have the need anymore as this setup has plenty of juice for my needs. Running an 80lb thrust ipilot.

Big benefit of the 925 setup is the size, specially for fitting all in the console on the 17hpxv.

PV redfisher. Would you mind specifying what size odyssey house battery and how you are recharging them? As an update I spoke with a guide here in Charleston this morning who runs a pro w/70 LA and he has the MK 70/24v and uses the pc 1200’s and says he easily goes 6 hours chasing tarpon. Can I assume you also have the 70? And are you recharging house off O/B and TM’s off battery charger?
Thanks and thanks again for those new comments

 

[Steve_Mevers]

I would definitely go with 24 volt, you would not be happy with a 12v on that setup. I run two of the smaller size AGM batteries to reduce weight and foot print (can't remember the brand) and I have a automatic switch that transfers the boat engines charging to the trolling motor batteries when I am running. They never go dead while I am on the water, even when I go camping for two or three days. I also just installed a Powermania 4 bank charger at the recommendation of forum members and I am very happy with the unit.

 

[FlyBy]

I've been using this set-up for over a year now and it works great.

https://www.microskiff.com/threads/12v-vs-24v-trollers.48287/page-2#post-390016

 

[flyclimber]

AH wise, my research shows lead acid can run down to 50% and Lithiums' down to 15% usable AH's. So there is a ~35% gain in usable AH's in Lithiums.
As I've stated earlier, I couldn't kill the 60AH lithiums in 2 days of fishing.
These batteries also charge incredibly fast. After the 2 days of fishing, each battery charged in 2.5 hrs a piece. From what i read, lithioms can charge very fast with no side effects to the battery.

Just be careful what you read. If you take the lithium to 50% DOC you will kill the battery very quickly. Talking ~200 50% DOC cycles vs ~2000 to 85%. Lithium has an incredible power density but has to be managed very well. A good quality charger is also a must. Constant amps that switches to constant volts to prevent over charge.

 

[flyclimber]

Also something to keep in mind if a lithium battery catches fire, pretty much nothing puts it out until the entire battery is consumed. A fire extinguisher is of no use.

While difficult to manage you can absolutely contain the blaze. You have to drown the battery in water. If you can cool the battery with a significant about of water you won't loose the whole boat.

 

[SC Bill]

Just be careful what you read. If you take the lithium to 50% DOC you will kill the battery very quickly. Talking ~200 50% DOC cycles vs ~2000 to 85%. Lithium has an incredible power density but has to be managed very well. A good quality charger is also a must. Constant amps that switches to constant volts to prevent over charge.

There are many types of Lithium batteries on the market. And many Li batteries are not suitable for marine use or >50% depth of discharge.

However, LiFePO4 batteries are not as intolerant to depth of discharge. Yet, like all batteries, regardless of type, depth of discharge and temperature will ultimately determine how long your batteries last. LiFePO4 is more tolerant of deep discharges and a longer battery life than most other energy storage solutions.

It is absolutely imperative a LiFePO4 battery be maintained with a smart charger with a Li battery charge mode selector.

Here's an all inclusive list with descriptions of all lithium battery types. And if interested, be sure to read the comments below the list. During my research for Li "house" batteries for my camper, I found the material in the list to be accurate. I also discovered, LiFePO4 batteries were being used for trolling motors.

 

[Elusive Porpi]

Just be careful what you read. If you take the lithium to 50% DOC you will kill the battery very quickly. Talking ~200 50% DOC cycles vs ~2000 to 85%. Lithium has an incredible power density but has to be managed very well. A good quality charger is also a must. Constant amps that switches to constant volts to prevent over charge.

I'm confused on what you are speaking of. Are you saying it is better to run the battery down more?
the Chart below is for Relion Lithium 60AH battery. It shows a DOD chart which show that even with 100% Depth of Discharge, you will still have 80% battery capacity after 2000 cycles. that is 38 years if you recharge once a week.

https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb60-x

 

[SC Bill]

I'm confused on what you are speaking of. Are you saying it is better to run the battery down more?
the Chart below is for Relion Lithium 60AH battery. It shows a DOD chart which show that even with 100% Depth of Discharge, you will still have 80% battery capacity after 2000 cycles. that is 38 years if you recharge once a week.

https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb60-x

Relion is another excellent LiFePO4 battery. I opted for Battle Born's 100Ah LiFePo4.

Most folks are only familiar with the general Li term and unfamiliar with the many different types of Li batteries on the market today for various applications.

In the chart you offered, note that the temperature was 77F for the analysis. As temperature decreases, expect the cycles associated with "Remaining Capacity" to slide to the left.

I would expect 77F to be a good median temperature for making yearly assumptions on life cycles for a LiFePO4 battery in south FLA.

All batteries experience reduced life cycles if taken into a deep (>50%) discharge. LiFePO4 batteries will have the highest number of life cycles if take below 50% remaining capacity than most any other battery. LiFePO4 is the only marine suitable battery (based on my limited research and knowledge after contacting LiFePO4 manufacturers) capable of more than 1000 taken to a depth of discharger >80%.

Even AGM life cycles will be greatly reduced if taken below 50% and some AGMs can tolerate limited DoD cycles to 80%. But you can't expect more than a couple of years of service out of an AGM constantly drained by a troller greater then 50%.

As mentioned in a previous post, I opted for a VMAX XTR AGM for my 12V troller. I'm operating my Riptide PowerDrive 55 for 3 hours max on any one outing at no more than speed 3 1/2 and seeing about 35% discharge.

What is 50% depth of discharge (DoD)? That varies from battery type to battery type, but a good rule of thumb is 12.2V is about 50% remaining capacity for most batteries. To know exactly what the SoC (state of charge) is for a battery, you need to test for specific gravity. But, we can't test SG on a sealed battery. If you're using a flooded battery you can test for specific gravity; 50% is a specific gravity of 1.190.

11.98V is 20% remaining capacity; 80% discharge.

 

[flyclimber]

I'm confused on what you are speaking of. Are you saying it is better to run the battery down more?
the Chart below is for Relion Lithium 60AH battery. It shows a DOD chart which show that even with 100% Depth of Discharge, you will still have 80% battery capacity after 2000 cycles. that is 38 years if you recharge once a week.

For the battery lower depth of discharge or higher depth of charge DOC. I have experience with LiFePo batteries and others varieties, there are two things that kill the cells. One is using them day in and out to around 50% charge or Two drawing too many amps, (continuous or max)

 

[crl.wms]

Here you go, many will disagree. I have done 24v with 2 PC 925s. I have had much better experience with 12 v and running 1 battery on the boat. I can rope start outboards so don’t worry, but I watch OCV and charging voltage when running and know where I am on battery condition. My Mav Mirage was set up this way and great for several years. Have set up my 3rd HB this way. Save the weight and complexity and watch your voltage. I do tend to fish slow and down current most times.

 

[bradass198]

I am considering adding a TM to my Maverick 17 HPX-V. After speaking with several very reputable installers, most suggest the 24v system which I agree is the safe way to go but to keep all batteries in console I would need to reduce the Reserve min to 80-90 [email protected] Amps for the battery sizes to work.
A 12v system would be the easiest install and I have not ruled that out as I could install one grp 29 battery and get 210 RC min’s
Here’s where I could use help.
Different conditions require different amounts of thrust so to provide a simple comparison, the 55# MK draws 50 amps at max which will burn through a RC 120 battery in one hour. If I go 24v, the MK 80# using 55 lbs of thrust uses 38.5 amps based on 56 max amp draw x 69% of max thrust. In other words, if my math is good, the 80# motor requires roughly 75% of the amps to achieve the same thrust as the 55# motor. I am using terrova numbers here.
When I read comments like “if you fish in wind and current then go 24v” doesn’t that simply translate to more thrust for longer?
It would be great if anyone with my skiff would respond and/or anyone who would set me straight on what I am missing in my analysis.
Thanks[/QUOTE

I have been using two VMAXTANKS MR85-50 AGM batteries at $155 a piece. I use them with my IPilot 80lb trolling motor with a Stealth charger on my HB Professional. I have not timed or done any calculations but they have never died on me and at the price and weight of about 32 pounds each they are hard to beat. Just sharing my experience. Good luck.

 

[jay.bush1434]

I may be a little late to the party but here is my set up. I have 2 PC1200’s powering my 80lb Ulterra. I can run my TM a good 8 hour trip no problem. Most of the time the motor is running on 2 or 3 or in anchor lock. I rarely have to bump up to higher than 5 (half power) and I fish a Vantage VHP which is a lot bigger boat than your Maverick.

 

[gkliv2003]

A quick update and again many thanks to all who have contributed
Jay.bush, essentially you have what the dealers are recommending and while I would like to go with the 12v 55#, I feel like the 80# 24v will insure a one and done decision
Btw what is your house battery and how do you recharge? Stealth or otherwise?
As a battery and motor update for the groups benefit, I spoke with Odyssey and asked about the PC1100 which weighs 27# vs 1200 @ 38# and with more juice and they claim it is a result of a different plate design and it’s also constructed in the UK unlike the 1200.
A local guide who will demo his setup for me after the holidays runs the 70# MK 24v w/ pc1200’s and suggests that motor for its weight. I called MK and yes it’s 45 lbs vs 65 lbs for the terrova 80# Apparently the deployment device and components are the reason. Also to get I-pilot with jog feature almost at same $
I don’t plan to make final choice until after the demo but because of all the good feedback it’s great to know I have the option to go 24 or 12v and get all the juice in my console with agm’s.
If anyone is in the Chas SC area and has the 55# setup with I-pilot and would be willing to demo I will be happy to return the favor...

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and tight lines!