[Smackdaddy53]

@lemaymiami
That was the best and most honest explanation I've heard on the subject, Capt. LeMay. Thank you sir.

Coming from someone with vast firsthand experience with the area this is gold. Thanks Captain LeMay.

 

[mwolaver]

Every trip into the Everglades (both north and south) provides evidence to me that the saltwater is in places that it didn't used to be. Stumps of giant black mangrove trees and sable palms with their feet wet indicate, to me anyway, that the water levels are changing. Was it that way a thousand years ago? Maybe, maybe not. I've seen this same "evidence" in places as different as Mud Bay and Turner River. I'm not a scientist, I just know what I see. I'm sure the human race is causing irreparable harm to that Park, no way or another. Tread lightly... I hope we can enjoy it for the rest of our and our children's lives.

 

[Smackdaddy53]

Every trip into the Everglades (both north and south) provides evidence to me that the saltwater is in places that it didn't used to be. Stumps of giant black mangrove trees and sable palms with their feet wet indicate, to me anyway, that the water levels are changing. Was it that way a thousand years ago? Maybe, maybe not. I've seen this same "evidence" in places as different as Mud Bay and Turner River. I'm not a scientist, I just know what I see. I'm sure the human race is causing irreparable harm to that Park, no way or another. Tread lightly... I hope we can enjoy it for the rest of our and our children's lives.

Captain LeMay explained it very well.

 

[Backcountry 16]

Every part of Florida's ecosystems have been negatively affected by what the Army Corps of Engineers (and Chamber of Commerce) did for decades, and the efforts to repair as much of the damage as possible are taking a back seat to population growth and development.

The government fd something up what a surprise.

 

[Backcountry 16]

Unfortunately, it looks as if rising sea levels will eventually claim the area. Isn’t that why the Park Service is building/built/rebuilt the dams? They’re supposed to be the stop gap to head off the process man put in effect the many years ago?
Remember reading that when East Cape Canal was first dug, you could jump across it. And, that Ingram was a natural freshwater lake/estuary…

Jim Jones has some kool-aid for you.

 

[lemaymiami]

One other small point about the Everglades (and other wild places everywhere... ). Lots of mistakes were made over years by the folks running things (and this is universal - in every country worldwide...) more out of ignorance than anything else. Yes, there are always bad actors that will do anything to benefit themselves without the slightest thought of the consequences - but I figure most of the time decision makers act on the evidence at hand - and it's only years later, when we know more that we begin to deal with the consequences... Look at the history of flood control down here on the Atlantic side of Florida, back in the early fifties. That was a time when lots and lots of folks moved into our state - then got really trashed by a series of hurricanes. After lots of trouble the state went to the Corps of Engineers and asked them to establish a good flood control infrastructure, starting from Lake O on down to the south. The Corps accepted the challenge and did a great job on flood control - and a terrible disaster for the Everglades along the way... Hardly anyone complained - and those that did - were ignored. It wasn't until years later that scientists realized how badly the 'glades were hurt by what we asked the Corps to do.... In fact if we start right now it will take tons of money, literally, and a lot of years to sort it all out. Our grandkids will still be struggling with these issues - long after we're gone...

 

[Backcountry 16]

Okay climate alarmists answer this question for me if sea levels are rising do you think the elites would be buying oceanfront property? Even better do you thinks banks would loan money to investors building high-rise on the beach? Do banks loan money to lose money? You have to look behind the bullshit people it's not that hard to see if you're eyes are open.

 

[Smackdaddy53]

Okay climate alarmists answer this question for me if sea levels are rising do you think the elites would be buying oceanfront property? Even better do you thinks banks would loan money to investors building high-rise on the beach? Do banks loan money to lose money? You have to look behind the bullshit people it's not that hard to see if you're eyes are open.

Don’t expect much if you are asking a climate activist/wokester to make sense of anything.
Global warming…but we had record low temperatures this month for an extended period. That’s why they had to change the name of their conspiracy theory to climate change…current weather doesn’t fit their global warming narrative any more. They even blamed the hurricanes on us! Weather is always going to change but people (human nature) generally will not. These wokesters cling to all sorts of nonsense and believe it until they don’t then they’ll act like they still believe it so they don’t look like they were fooled. It’s exhausting.

 

[Backcountry 16]

Don’t expect much if you are asking a climate activist/wokester to make sense of anything.
Global warming…but we had record low temperatures this month for an extended period. That’s why they had to change the name of their conspiracy theory to climate change…current weather doesn’t fit their global warming narrative any more. They even blamed the hurricanes on us! Weather is always going to change but people (human nature) generally will not. These wokesters cling to all sorts of nonsense and believe it until they don’t then they’ll act like they still believe it so they don’t look like they were fooled. It’s exhausting.

That's why they changed it to climate change if you change the word it's true remember vaccine change as well wonder how that's working for them?🙄

 

[mwolaver]

Captain LeMay explained it very well.

I'm well aware of everything that Bob mentioned, Smack. I've been fishing down there almost as long as he has. And I live on another lagoon that was once fresh until permanent inlets were installed by us...the Indian River. Talk about an environmental nightmare. I was tactfully trying to point out that neither you nor I can prove or disprove water level rise to each other. If it is rising, is it because of recent human mistakes or as part of the "normal fluctuation" that many point out? Plenty of data our there that show water levels higher now than they were 40 or 50 years ago.

Let's just all agree that the OP's fishing hole is under constant change and it's manmade. And it's super dangerous to try and navigate, so stay away!!!

 

[The Fin]

Maybe it would be a good idea to post up GPS coordinates on the Internet so that everyone can know exactly where to go. That always helps.

And make sure that you include drone footage as well!

 

[K3anderson]

I recall Glen Simmons talking about this in his book Gladesman. He said when they cut the canal it was as wide as a canoe roughly. Today there is no way you could even cast from one side to the other. Prior to that it was all freshwater. The tide at the Cape rips and has torn that completely open. In fact, he predicted this exact thing happening as a result of opening the channel there. Has nothing to do with global warming to seas rising. People cut a canal there that pushes and pulls massive amounts of water every few hours.

 

[rovster]

The current in those canals RIPS. This past weekend going through those creeks was like going through rapids no lie. There was white caps and frothy water going around corners. Crazy!

 

[ebr]

is the book, THE SWAMP by Michael Grunwald...

I read (actually listened to) that book on my recent 4400 mile trip with my new skiff. Very informative.

 

[DBStoots]

Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly.

https://acwi.gov/sos/pubs/2ndJFIC/Contents/5C_Boudreau_02_25_10_paper.pdf

Abstract The Cape Sable peninsula is located on the southwestern tip of the Florida peninsula within Everglades National Park (ENP). Lake Ingraham, the largest lake within Cape Sable, is now connected to the Gulf of Mexico and western Florida Bay by canals built in the early 1920’s. Some of these canals breached a natural marl ridge located to the north of Lake Ingraham. These connections altered the landscape of this area allowing for the transport of sediments to and from Lake Ingraham. Saline intrusion into the formerly fresh interior marsh has impacted the local ecology. Earthen dams installed in the 1950’s and 1960’s in canals that breached the marl ridge have repeatedly failed. Sheet pile dams installed in the early 1990’s subsequently failed resulting in the continued alteration of Lake Ingraham and the interior marsh.

Thanks for sharing that study.

 

[DBStoots]

Good info @iMacattack

A link to a youtube video about the government's Cape Sable Canals Dam Restoration Project in 2010-11:

...and 11 years later, we finally have the funding and initiative to finish the job with the help of The Florida Audubon Society and Ducks Unlimited leading the project:

Cape Sable Canal Dam Restoration Finally Funded

fl.audubon.org

Thanks for sharing that video.

 

[DBStoots]

Great book, Bob. I also encourage everyone who has any interest in the ENP and SFL in general to read this.

The Swamp: The Everglades, Florida, and the Politics of Paradise. By Michael Grunwald

 

[James Humphrey]

Link to a paper written in 2010. The first paragraph outlines the problem clearly.

https://acwi.gov/sos/pubs/2ndJFIC/Contents/5C_Boudreau_02_25_10_paper.pdf

Abstract The Cape Sable peninsula is located on the southwestern tip of the Florida peninsula within Everglades National Park (ENP). Lake Ingraham, the largest lake within Cape Sable, is now connected to the Gulf of Mexico and western Florida Bay by canals built in the early 1920’s. Some of these canals breached a natural marl ridge located to the north of Lake Ingraham. These connections altered the landscape of this area allowing for the transport of sediments to and from Lake Ingraham. Saline intrusion into the formerly fresh interior marsh has impacted the local ecology. Earthen dams installed in the 1950’s and 1960’s in canals that breached the marl ridge have repeatedly failed. Sheet pile dams installed in the early 1990’s subsequently failed resulting in the continued alteration of Lake Ingraham and the interior marsh.

Thank You for the actual science on the matter...