Help: Checking for water in the hull?

Discussion in 'Boat Yard Basics' started by pparfomak, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. pparfomak

    pparfomak I have no idea what I'm doing here

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    So I just bought a used Peenoe 15'11" SportCanoe.  I got a good deal but the hull needs some work--there is a poor repair on the "keel" by the prior owner and there have been some chips on the outside edges.

    http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee469/pparfomak/IMAG0104.jpg

    I noticed that the boat feels too heavy to me.  Is it possible that water got into the double hull around the flotation? If so, how would I check for that and what could I do about it?  Do they use a closed cell material for flotation or could it get saturated like a sponge?  I'm totally new to this, so I would be grateful for your experience.

    -Spud
     
  2. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Worrying about water logged foam, is like questioning at the ramp, "is the wind blowing too hard to go fishing?"

    If you have to think about it, it probably is... :'(

    Only way I know to check for wet foam is to drill a hole,
    preferably in a spot where it's easy to fix,
    and low enough on the hull, that water will drain out of it if present.
     

  3. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    Post a picture of the boat when you can, cause if it is the model I'm thinking of I don't think it has a liner (double hull). What makes you think it is too heavy? Is it slow in the water? hard to launch?
    If it is the 3 bench model then the floatation will be in the seats I think. If so even if the foam is totally water logged then it might add maybe 40lbs or so and wouldn't make a huge difference. You didn't say what power you are using, it may just be a little underpowered.
     
  4. pparfomak

    pparfomak I have no idea what I'm doing here

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    Well, it's supposed to be 126 lbs, I think, but it feels a bit heavier, just carrying it. I haven't floated it yet (just brought her home yesterday).  Here's a pic of the boat:
    [​IMG]

    and here's a pic of where the hull got chipped where I thought water might of got in. A few other patches like it.

    [​IMG]

    Make and year:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Weigh it...bathroom scale technique works fine.
     
  6. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    I really don't think it has a liner from what I see, it looks like another version of the gheenoe and the foam will be in the seats. The seats have drains at the bases usually down the middle so the foam might be wet but not completely soaked so the weight won't be much. My old gheenoe weighed about 120lbs, but it was so awkward to lift I swore it was about 200lbs. Like Brett said just weigh it, no point getting worried especially since you haven't had it in the water yet, it will probably float just perfectly.
     
  7. pparfomak

    pparfomak I have no idea what I'm doing here

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    Well I weighed the boat this morning using a bathroom scale.  (I put the scale first under the transom end then under the bow end and added the weights up.) It came out at approximately 210 lbs. So based on a design weight of 130 lbs. it looks like there are 80 lbs. of water in the hull (10 gallons/10.5 cubic feet).  It has been below freezing here, so I haven't drilled any holes to see if water comes out, but I assume it's there.

    I also learned that there is flotation foam in the triangular space along the bottom edge "outriggers" as well as in the seats. Assuming the flotation foam is saturated everywhere, is there a way I can either dry it our or pull it out? For example, if I opened up a hole on the inside could I pull out all the foam from that one hole, or would I have to open up the whole length? (Would the foam be attached or free?)

    I'm a little bit heart-broken about this water problem, but I'm not prepared to give up on this cool boat if there is something I could do to fix it. I don't care about the looks, just the functionality.  Please give me some suggestions to try.  Thanks!

    -Spud
     
  8. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Drill holes as needed and attach a vacuum pump to drain liquid?
    Drill holes as needed and bake hull in sun under black plastic?
     
  9. Gramps

    Gramps Living &amp; Dying in 3/4 Time

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    Spud it sounds like the method used to weigh the boat is flawed. It would be damn hard to fit 10 gallons of water in that boat, IMO. Do a google search for using the bathroom scale. Can you stand the hull up on the transom, on the scale? I just think weighing each end & adding the numbers together is way over estimating the actual weight.
     
  10. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    This

    Or u could find a weigh station, and weigh it
     
  11. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Bathroom scale technique for canoe type hulls...

    Scale on hard flat surface.
    Block of foam, 12" x 8" x 4", on scale, where feet would normally go.
    Set keel of hull on foam at balance point of hull.
    Foam supports and balances hull, allows reading of scale.
     
  12. Gramps

    Gramps Living &amp; Dying in 3/4 Time

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    He aint got no trailer!

    I think Brett's right. Again.  ;)
     
  13. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    Car top that sucker lol he got it home somehow!
     
  14. levip

    levip I Love microskiff.com!

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    lol yea bretts right .... and yes weighing one end at a time will give you a higher number unless you blck up the other end to the exact height of the scale just stand it up and get a buddy to read the scale
     
  15. pparfomak

    pparfomak I have no idea what I'm doing here

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    Well, I took your guys' advice and weighed it again on a bathroom scale--all the boat at once.  Here's what I got:

    [​IMG]

    So that puts me about 90# overweight on a 130# boat. The double end weighing method got me 80#, so the number is probably in the ballpark given margin of error.  In either case, I've got a hull saturated with water. So now this new boat of mine is a real restoration project, not just some touch up.  I've been talking with the manufacturer about getting the wet foam out--and we came up with a good plan.  I'M UP FOR THE CHALLENGE AND THE LEARNING EXPERIENCE!  But I'll start another thread on that.  Thanks for your help so far!

    -Spud
     
  16. tom_in_orl

    tom_in_orl Founder of Microskiff, Member of the Gheenoe Army

    Hi there,

    The transom could be wet since it was already redone once. You won't know whats back there until you tear it apart. Drilling some small holes is also a good suggestion to get an idea whats going on elsewhere.

    Keep in mind that the 130 lbs is a manufactures estimate. I don't think that your overage is all water weight. Depending upon how much glass they added that day the boat could weigh much more. It may turn out that some or a majority of the weight is heavy construction which could be good if you want a tough boat. If you are talking to the manufacture ask him what would be the high end of the weight range on a boat with extra glass in it. Also ask him to weigh one of his new boats that's the same configuration.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
     
  17. beyondhelp

    beyondhelp Well-Known Member

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    You'd be suprised at how much a 1' cube of wet foam can weigh. Mine weighed in at 10#

    [​IMG]

    They key to fixing the waterlogged foam (If there is any) is to find a way to remove it, then reinforce the places you cut / drilled or otherwise damaged getting the foam out.

    In my opinion, you've got a decent starting point even if it is soaked inside. Don't be too discouraged.

    I suggest you do a little research before cutting, plan it out and you could be back in business in a short time. I ran my boat for a year with waterlogged foam and a bunch of sketchy patches on the bottom / sides and transom. Still caught fish, just more slowly. ;D
     
  18. pparfomak

    pparfomak I have no idea what I'm doing here

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    Thanks, John! My plan "A" is to cut out a hole for a 5" storage/inspection port in the rear seat and see if that's where all the water is. If it's wet, I'll dig it out though the hole, weigh it, and see if it accounts for the extra weight. Assuming it does, I'll just refoam, nistall the port, and fix the openings that let the water in to begin with. Will get some dry storage out of it as the plus.

    Plan "B": If that's not all the water, I'll cut out the rear set and open up the "outrigger" spaces on each side where the seat was mounted to check that foam. If it's wet, I can remove the front seat, too, open up there also and replace all the foam through those side openings. The outrigger holes will be covered up when I repalce the seats so I won't have to worry too much about cosmetics.

    How's that for a strategy? I just hope it's Plan A!
     
  19. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Spud - I can almost guarantee the foam will be wet.

    The stuff breaks down with time and then the breakdown creates airspace and the air in the cavity allows for condensation and the condensation is absorbed by the foam that is not suppose to absorb water. Vicious cycle.

    Figure out what you want your final outcome to be and go for it.
     
  20. Good luck getting it all out through that hole...

    I took over 50lbs of wet foam out from the rear of my RiverHwak and it was a pain. Even with the large openings I cut.

    I blew compressed air into the foam filled compartments in my boat and I had a few small pin holes that were blowing bubbles and water...
     
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