First time micro rebuild

Discussion in 'Boat Yard Basics' started by DLBjaxbeach, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    I have been lurking around this site and batteau for the last couple months while planning my first rebuild project.  I picked up the boat/motor/trailer in Dec for $660.  Not a bad price, but not a great one either when you consider that each item (boat/motor/trailer) has a set of projects to go along with it.  Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad one as I probably have more time to work on a boat in the garage than to go fishing anyway.  (A 2 year old and a 1 year old make home-based entertainment much more feasible than non-home-based entertainment.)  It is a 1955 Lone Star Boats 14.  It is 60" at the widest point and 48" at the transom.  Here it is:
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    From the landscape timbers as trailer bunks to the duct tape on the motor, I have my work cut out for me.

    The I am pretty much going to gut the hull and start over.  All the seats are coming out and I will have front and rear decking as well as creating a place (where the center seat is now) that will hold a cooler in place and have a small backrest.

    On for the bow deck, I am going with a split level.  The top level will come back about 30 inches from the bow and allow for a trolling motor mount and a small casting deck.  The secondary deck will be at the current seat level and will extend back another 36 inches or so.  Under that will be battery storage and a livewell, as well as tubes on either side for rod storage. 

    The center seat will be removed and I will put in a rib of 3/4 marine ply vertically oriented to give some stiffness and serve as the butt end of the rod holders.  The cooler will be fitted just in front of that rib and there will be a small removable backrest that attaches to the ply. 

    The transom is gone and will be replaced and there will a rear deck about 30" long put in with a cut out for the motorwell.  The motor will be put on a mini jacker with a 4" set back and run with an ext handle. The motor runs and idles well, has good compression and pumps water.  It just isn't too pretty. (That alone made the $660 a good price.)

    That is the basic game plan.  I am in way over my head but that is always more fun.  I am pretty sure that I can take a six hundred dollar boat and turn it into a boat that is worth at least two thousand, and it will only take me six months of work and four thousand in materials...the little voice in my head says: "go on craigslist right now and by a 16 foot lowe aluminum and be done with it."  But that would be too easy.

    Now for the construction questions where I can use some help from you guys:

    1. On the transom, I am planning on using 2 X ¾ marine plywood, laminated for the core.  How many layers and what weight of fiberglass tape and glass should I use?  I am thinking 2 or 3 layers of 1208 should do it.  On the tape, what is the reason for using 45/45 vs 0/90

    2. The transom (about 48” wide) will braced with two stringers that come up to approx three inches from the top of the transom.  These stringers will form the main supports for the rear deck (about 30 inches in length).  The stringers will be about 18” apart and about 15” tall.  The deck will be notched out between the stringers to form a motorwell and the deck will be glassed into the transom on either side of the motorwell.  What size plywood should I use for the stringers, ½ or ¾ ?  Do I need to glass the entire stringer, or can I just tape the joints and coat them in epoxy?  If I glass them, what weight glass and how many layers?

    3. What weight and how many layers of glass should be used for decking assuming I am using ½ marine ply?

    4. I am going to build some buoyancy compartments front and rear and am wondering about the advantages/disadvantages in cutting Styrofoam blocks for those instead of two part foam. The compartments will be completely sealed/glassed closed.

    5. I am planning on leaving this a fairly rough finish and don't really care how pretty it is at the end.  I don't want to worry about dropping a castnet on the deck.  I do want it to be tough though.  I have read lots of threads on deck paints and bottom paints and I am pretty much sold on the aluminum powder and epoxy for the bottom.  Can I do something similar for the interior of the boat just using some of the texture and pigment?  If I do that should i spring for the pricey UV stabilized epoxy.  Again, not looking for pretty, but I want real tough and don't want to be painting again in a year or two.  (Cheap doesn't hurt either.)

    6. I am planning on putting a livewell in eventually and I am wondering about the location of the plumbing.  The well will be under the front deck. Can you put the intake and overflow drain in up there?  If not where is the best location?  I probably wont get into doing the well for quite a while, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by not planning for it.

    Thanks in advance.  I will document the process here as well as I can.
     
  2. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    The difference between the 0-90 and the 45-45 has to do with strength across seams.
    Typical fiberglass tape has the composing strands oriented at 90° to each other,
    in the picture below, that would be the red and the yellow lines.
    The 0-90 glass has the stands oriented with the weave
    parallel and perpendicular to the length of the roll.
    The 45-45 has the weave running diagonally to the length of the roll.
    When applied along a seam (the green line) you can see
    that the 0-90 only allows half the strands to bridge the seam.
    The 45-45 allows all strands to bridge the seam, increasing tensile strength.
     

  3. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Brett. That makes perfect sense.
     
  4. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Since the 1/2 plywood is strong enough all by itself, sealing with epoxy is all you need to do.
    To add some abrasion resistance a single layer of 6 ounce tooling cloth can be added just to the top.

    Transom knees made from 1/2 inch plywood will be plenty strong also,
    when bonded to the hull with thickened epoxy, filleted in place and the joints glass taped.
    When it comes down to fiberglassing seams, I like to overbuild.
    I'd want 3 layers of at least 6 ounce cloth along each side.

    The transom fabricated from 1-1/2 inches of marine ply is plenty strong all by itself
    when bonded to the existing hull with epoxy. A single skin of 6 ounce glass can be added if you want.
     
  5. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for walking me thru all these questions.

    Ok, I follow everything except this:

    Are you saying to use 3X 6oz tape for the seams to the transom and hull?  Or 3x 6oz cloth for both sides of the knees wrap those layers into both the hull and transom?
     
  6. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    3 layers on each side of the knee along the hull and where it meets the transom.
    I'd also want glass along the transom plywood/hull skin joint
     
  7. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Ok Brett. I think I follow. Thanks, I think you just saved me about $75 (or maybe alot more) in fiberglass overkill and God only knows how much resin I would have used.

    I am going to be ordering my materials in the next week or so and I am curious about your thoughts on just using textured and pigmented epoxy for the interior of the boat in lieu of a deck paint. Can I get away with that or is it just a really bad idea? If I can, should I be looking at the UV epoxy?
     
  8. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    I have zero experience using epoxy as a deck finish.
    On my build I used paint with non-skid grit over epoxy on deck surfaces.
     
  9. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Pigment is added to color the epoxy to help scratches in the paint to be less noticable, it is not meant to be left uncovered.
     
  10. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, getting closer to actually starting this project. Got my fiberglass and resin the other day and soon will be off to get the marine plywood. I was originally thinking of using 2x 3/4 ply for the transom, but I hate to buy a whole sheet of 3/4 for just that. I know I could substitute 3x1/2 and wind up with the same thickness and strength. Do you think i could get away with using 2x 1/2?

    There will be 2 transom knees running nearly the full height of the transom to support the back deck, and the deck will be glassed in as well. Right now I am thinking the 3/4 may be overkill since I wont ever run more than a 25 on this boat anyway. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  11. WhiteDog70810

    WhiteDog70810 Mostly Harmless

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    The entire transom does not need to be 1.5" thick for that size of boat.  My transom is 1/2" ply. Only the top 10" needs to be beefed up with a clamping board across the width of the transom to keep the weight and torque of the motor from flexing the transom.  I used 2 layers of 1/2" ply for this, but you can use a 1x10" oak board also.  I taped it in with 2 staggered layers of 12 oz biax tape on the inside and one layer on the outside. Either option will save you weight and money over a full 1.5" transom.  I wouldn't buy a sheet of 3/4" if I could help it.

    If you glass stiffeners under your decks and a layer of 6 oz cloth on top, you can use 3/8" ply and save a bit of weight. If you camber the deck and glass both sides of the ply and place supports in the right places, you can use 1/4" ply and save even more weight, but the build will become a bit more complex.

    Nate
     
  12. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Nate. I think I want to at least run the double layer of 1/2 ply the full height of the transom however. The motor is going to be mounted using a fixed jackplate, so I want full stiffness/strength down a little lower than I would if I was just clamping the motor on the transom.
     
  13. WhiteDog70810

    WhiteDog70810 Mostly Harmless

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    Fair `nuf. Your knees will stiffen the lower transom and tie it to the bottom of the hull, but a little bit more 1/2" ply won't add too much weight. Just beware of the "overbuild bug" as you proceed through your build. You will end up with a hell-for-stout hull, but 2# here and 5# there will add up over a build. That being said, I am more sensitive about weight than others because I won't have a trailer for a while.

    Nate
     
  14. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    The overbuild bug infects most projects I take on. Hence the idea of using 2x3/4 for a jonboat transom... :-/ I am very likely going to wind up with a 14' micro that weighs 1200#s dry with no fuel and an empty livewell.
     
  15. DuckNut

    DuckNut Brandon, FL

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    Overbuild sets in most beginners projects because they just can;t believe that a piece of cloth that they can see through is going to hold anything and they have no knowledge of how strong the components are when assembled correctly. Happens more than you realize.
     
  16. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Good luck with your build. You've got the right people feeding you info! I will be keeping an eye on this one...
     
  17. WhiteDog70810

    WhiteDog70810 Mostly Harmless

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    Cool boat, but we haven't heard anything in a while. DLB, you done been pinged!

    Nate
     
  18. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Guilty as charged.  Been slacking.  Here are some updated photos.  Got along a pretty good ways with the demo, but it seems like the sanding will never end...been stuck at the stage you see here for the last 2 months.  Watching tv isn't as itchy.

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    Anyway, maybe this will be the week to get back on it. Thanks for the motivation.
     
  19. WhiteDog70810

    WhiteDog70810 Mostly Harmless

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    Looks like you got the big ugly chunks out. The side grinder makes pretty quick work of that stuff, but it is very itchy. It is the palm sander work that gets miserable. Depending on how polished you intend the finished product to be, that can take anywhere from a half hour to several months.

    Anyway, let's assume you have the really itchy work behind you and the fun stuff coming up. Keep it up!

    Nate
     
  20. DLBjaxbeach

    DLBjaxbeach Well-Known Member

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    Managed to get a couple nights in this week. Sanding and more sanding. I am definitely staying with a "work boat" finish on the interior, so I am trying not to get too carried away there.

    One question: how well will epoxy bond to old gelcoat? I am sanding the surface off of it, so it is scuffed, but do I need to take everything down to bare glass?
     
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