Babbling about paint

Discussion in 'Boat Yard Basics' started by oysterbreath, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    OK, so I've been gathering as much info as possible on paint as I can. I'm soon to get starting painting my hull. One thing that just bothers me is the price of two-part paint. I'm looking at 500-600 bucks for Awlgrip or Alexseal (including all of the needed componets). 400-450 for interlux perfection. Those are my two part paints. My single part paints will set me back 200 bucks (Interlux brightside, petite eazypoxy, and epinefins) ! Now I've heard all of the wonderful things about two part but dang-it look at the price. The thing that bugs me the most is althought they cost more....they are sooooo much harder to do repair work on. I don't care how much harder finish they are said to have...they WILL scratch eventually. Then what? With said said, how much harder are they really? Folks say that the two-part paints retain gloss longer but I ain't heard anyone saying Brightside's gloss diminishes too quickly! I expect that no mater which paint I choose, I will need to repaint in 8 years. If I can do some paint repairs along the way I can maintain some level of good looks too. Can't easily repair the two part paint! I'm I to assume that the two-part paint thing is more of an elitist issue? lol I hate to put it that way... I mean, I've heard that you can only tell the difference when the two types of paint are side-by-side and of equal age. Well, I just won't park my boat next to your two-part painted skiff! :D Uggg! I'm back to square ONE! Somebody school me please!
     
  2. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    You get what you pay for..
    Your entitled to paint your hull with anything you want, but after the untold hours of sanding and fairing, just to put a cruddy paint job on top doest make sense to me.
    And awlcraft 2000 is quite easy to repair btw. And if you are careful with the boat and dont let it beat up against the dock or other boats, why else would you have to fix it? :-?
     

  3. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Or you can go old school and use marine alkyd enamel.
    Inexpensive and easy to apply, touch ups are simple.
    For a garage kept hull it'll do the job, but will chalk if left outdoors.
     
  4. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the reply. See, that's just it...From what I've been reading the single component marine paints from the manufactures I noted before aren't crud; instead, they seem to be competitive alternatives which in most cases retain gloss and hardness only slightly less than two part. Now, I say that only as a regurgitation of stuff I've READ. THAT'S NOT FIRST HAND INFO. As much as I've been learning, online, it's all just 3rd person mumbo jumbo. I have no first hand experience. I can say that I know of other products with-in my own industry that don't fall into the "you get what you pay for" paradigm. I even know some that fall into the "they charge more because they CAN" category. Anyway, what I'm getting at is this. What is the real world difference between two specific one and two part products. I'm sure the two part will be better but by how much. If it's marginal. I'll go with the one part paint. If it's night and day. I might bend over and let Mr. Algrip have his way with my wallet.
    Well, the Petite easypoxy and interlux brightside paints are both alkyd paints. Petite more-so than the brightside which is why it is said to dry slower. Epifanes also has an alkyd paint that is said to be pretty good too. It scratch test higher than either of the first two I mentioned. Anyway, anyone have experience with one AND two part paints? Comments are always appreciated regardless. Sometimes I just need a different perspective to augment my own...
     
  5. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah. Now see, I get various opinions about awlcraft. Some say yes, some say no. I wonder if they are getting awlgrip confused with awlcraft2000?!?
    Why else would I need to fix it....man...I'm gonna scratch it, it's just a matter of time before I run up on a submerged oysterbed or log. lol


    Oh, by the way. I'm still thinking about Awlcraft or Alexseal. I'm waiting for a price quote from Central Florida Marine before I make up my mind. In the mean while, I'm second guessing myself...
     
  6. firecat1981

    firecat1981 BBA Counselor

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    Lol, at least I'm not the one starting the debate this time ;).

    I've used Interlux Brightside on my last 3 boats and I have been very happy with the results even though I'm using the roll and tip method. My thinking is much the same as yours, I build my boats to use and I'm constantly either changing things (drilling new holes or filling old ones), or repairing scratches from docks, bridge piling.......

    On my current boat I haven't had to do much touch up work yet because I did an epoxy/graphite coating on the bottom, I've beached my rig on oyster bars quite a few times now and it doesn't do any major damage. I'll do the same coating on every boat I own from now on.
     
  7. paint it black

    paint it black Paddling away...

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    Who ever uses one part paint is a freaking idiot. The only reason to use it is because you cannot afford the real stuff. There's no other reasoning or comparison to do otherwise.

    Single part paints don't hold up. They peel and flake off. They never harden up. One can always dig their fingernail into it.


    Don't you ever compare the quality of finish, either. Single part paints have zero depth in the ultimate finish.


    If you choose to use the garbage single paint stuff that's all you. But don't come on here trying to justify it by claiming it's a myth created by elitist. That is an insult to those of us who know the truth. And know it because of past experiences. Not just what we read or heard.

    I could point out to you what was painted with what without having them side by side. I do this for a living. I don't say these things for no reason. I know what I'm talking about.
     
  8. jms

    jms don't let common sense get in your way

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    the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth !!
    well stated !!

    single part cheap crap paint is what it is...kinda like rolling and tipping,as a technique to painting - both are a giant waste of time...
     
  9. paint it black

    paint it black Paddling away...

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    Pardon me if I came off a bit harsh with the first line. I was a bit frustrated cause I had just lost a tarpon on fly after lasting the whole fight. Once I got it to me, it did one last half ass jump and came loose. I should have probably used a better choice of words, but I still stand by it.
     
  10. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    Pib: thankyou for giving some differences and explanation on why it is better, not just saying it is better.
    I myself have used all the previous mentioned paints, as well as gelcoat with duratech, and i will also agree that awlgrip cant be beat..
    And if your wallet cant afford awlgrip, look into sterling! Its a great paint as well and easily repairable, and much easier on the wallet.
    Everyone is entitled to paint their boat with whatever they want, house paint, rustoleum, ppg anything..
    Now quit sniffing paint fumes and go celebrate the country that allows us to even own a boat!! [smiley=usa.gif] [smiley=usa2.gif]
     
  11. Brett

    Brett > PRO STAFF <

    Proud to be a freakin' idjit... ;)

    Interdeck biege is still holding up after 3 years use.  ;D





    .

    Fixed it for ya'.   :)
     
  12. paint it black

    paint it black Paddling away...

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    That's not always the case. I personally will never roll and tip anything. But two part paints have a far superior finish to them when rolled and tipped compared to the same method using brightsides.



    And remember, a single quart kit of Awlgrip is actually about two sprayable quarts once catalyzed and reduced...
     
  13. cutrunner

    cutrunner Cert. Yamaha technician

    Also a very good, overlooked point.
    If your air pressure and gun are set up properly ie, your not just blowing paint into the air and wasting it, awlgrip goes a long way.
    I think i used 6oz of mixed paint to spray my 70 johnson. And i did a solid 3 coats., not to mention the motor was completely dis assembled.
    I use an hvlp gun, and have very good results. Granted its not the "correct " system to use to spray awlgrip..
    The best thing you can do for yourself when spraying paint is remember "prep prep prep!"
    Prepwork is 85 percent of the job imo.
    And Take Your Time! If somethings not right, dont spray, dont rush..
    ;D





     
  14. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Once again, I'd like to thank everyone for their comments. PIB, damn bro! That first reply was vicious! But after reading your second reply I see why. lol It's all good! Being that PAINT is what YOU DO to make a living your words carry great weight. I wasn't literally suggesting that the TRUE difference between the two paints is elitist. My words were b.s. speculative conjecture more than anything else. There is just sooooo much criss-crossed data out there! Anyway, one of my other questions was inadvertently answered here too. I can't spray, I don't have the equipment and can't sink that sort of money into it. I have read that rolling and tipping two part is somewhat of a disservice to it's true potential. It sounds as if that is not the case based on one of the responses here? One thing I hear alot about one part paint is the complaint that it doesn't always completely harden. Typically when this point is brought up on a forum someone comes along and reveals that the painter missed a step in his preparation such as not using the proper wipe down solvent or improperly prep'ing the subsurface in some way. In a few cases that I read, no reducer was used and the coats were put on thick which is a super NO-NO for single component paints so-I-hear. PIB, the case in which you speak of (single part paints not drying) was that personal experience or someone else? Please remember, I'm not a painter, Just someone trying to figure this out. Nothing I write is meant to be an insult or challenge. I just like to be well informed before I sink cash into something. I know  a lot of people (via the internet, no one in person...so it really doesn't count lol)who use single part paint to great effect. Personally, I have only seen one part paint on a boat years and years ago. Too long ago to recall. I've seen awlgrip though. And honestly, I don't need a mirror finish. really don't even want a mirror finish. I just want a smooth, deep semigloss, that's hard enough for a weekend fishing wanna-be warrior. No matter what paint I get...I'll prolly repaint it at about 8 years anyway. I'm not sure. Just need some info from those who DO! Thanks fellas.
     
  15. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah, also. I was under the impression that I was going to need about a gallon of material.
    I have a 130 SF hull and 68 SF deck. Does that sound about right? I have an awlgrip dealer lined up and a Alexseal rep that I'm in contact with. Just needed a second opinion.

    Happy 4th!
     
  16. Puertoricoinshore

    Puertoricoinshore dont just fish fly fish!!!!!!

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    AWL GRIP RULESSSSS!!!! [smiley=supercool.gif]I just painted the outside J16 with awl grip sky blue.
    For a j16 i went with 1/2 gl for the outside and bottom and 1 qt of snow white for the inside console and some parts. Did 3 coats with multiple passes per cup so in all i did like 6 coats and still have paint for another coat.
    The owner pay under $400 with reducer, activator. If you have the money go for it. When you see that thing shine and you can see your reflection you know your playing in the big leagues. If after all that hard work you put in still want to stay in the minors go for it to. In the end money talks.

    Sorry if my message is all twisted i think in spanish and write in english.
     
  17. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Anyone ever bought paint from
    www.boatersland.com?


    Best awlgrip and interlux perfection prices if found so far....
     
  18. EricY

    EricY Well-Known Member

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    I ordered some Perfection varnish from them. No problems, if I remember correctly it came pretty quick.

    Paint... I used Sterling on my Challenger, rolled and tipped. When I finished, I decided if I do it again I will have someone spray it for me. Now don't get me wrong, it looks pretty freakin' awesome. I did the entire restoration up to that point myself, and I wanted to finish it myself.

    I put 4 coats on, but unfortunately my best coat was the 3rd. It looked almost perfect, except for that one little spot I somehow missed under the gunnel. :'( I couldn't stand it, and did one more coat. It just didn't come out quite as well. Some very fine brush marks, but if you are more than a foot away you will never see them. My wife thinks I'm nuts for fretting over it, but when you have put so much time into something, you want it to be perfect. I'm just not that good of a painter to pull off perfection.

    If you are going to put the work into fairing the boat to a yacht finish, then I think it is worth it to go with one of the 2 part lpu paints. The only other paint I have used is brightsides, and there is no comparison. I painted the hull above the waterline, and the topsides with the Sterling. I used just under a 1/2 gallon of paint. That comes out to about a gallon, once you add in converter and thinner.

    Good luck!!
     
  19. Creek Runner

    Creek Runner Well-Known Member

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    Just use Imron and be done with it! :)
     
  20. oysterbreath

    oysterbreath Well-Known Member

    Well, I ordered the paint. I went with alexseal off-white. Its a two pairt paint most comparable to awlgrip. I talked to a few different companies about ordering paint. I even talked to ECC. Adam was a great help. I was considering getting awlgrip through them but decided on using alexseal after a few long and informative folk who made it much easier for me to finally decide to give alexseal a try. The only place in town that sales alexseal was central florida marine. After being blown off by them one-to-many times the alexseal rep suggested that i give gold coast marine a try. Gold coast was awesome. Very helpful. Not as much practical knowledge as the folk at ECC but i didn't expect them to be. While i'll prolly never deal with CFM again everyone else was awesome. I ended up buying a gal of paint, 1/2gal converter, reducer, and a few odds and ends for 280. The alexseal rep is a great dude to. He was a former awlgrip rep and spoke highly of both paints. I also decided that im going to give kiwi grip a try on the deck unless i have a ton of paint left over...which is unlikely anyway.
     
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