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'04 HB Devilray Merc 25 HP
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They rust.... fast, in the salt. Only a couple of uses with the same fly until they are toast. Great freshwater bass hook tho.
Any tarpon hooks that don't? I have the same issue with the Owner hooks and I think I will have similar issues with the Tiemcos
 

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The Gamakatsu B10S is a great hook. I use them a lot for saltwater patterns and they last about as long as the flies do, which is usually longer than a couple of outings. A hook hone like the ceramic tiemco model will clean up any shallow surface corrosion. I also like the Mustad Stingers and those are less expensive than the Gamakatsu ones.

I try to avoid stainless hooks. They are softer and the hook points tend to roll over when they strike something hard like shell. Harder to keep sharp. Forged carbon steel is stronger than stainless steel. I’ve got a few stainless hooks, but don’t really see the point of them. Flies get chewed up by fish or otherwise lost and tend to last about as long as the carbon hook will.
 

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I Love microskiff.com!
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To me the b-10 is to thin a wire hook especially for saltwater fish unless your using sizes #1 and larger. You can straighten them out, number 4’s straighten out really easily.

They are a very sharp hook and they penetrate well.

Regardless of what hook it’s tied on, if you wash and let your flies air dry inside after use you will get much longer life out of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've done fairly well with all my hooks, fly and cast. I might be a little anal though, I put my flys on a patch after use and then rinse everything once I get home. I have stuff over 20 years old still spotless and sharp. Just don't wade with a box in your pocket and expect to get away with it.
 

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Fly Fishing Shaman
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The reason I mentioned the rust thing is they tend to rust way faster than most other black nickel plated high carbon hooks. I think Gama uses a completely different plating process, which is probably the issue. Believe me, when they first came out on the market 20yrs ago, I told a lot of people about them. But gave them up a few years later (except for freshwater) after getting tired of the rust issues.

That all being said, there are a few "go-to" flies I use, that will get shredded after several dink snook or mackerel chews on them and then they get shredded past being useful. So they get tossed in the circular file regardless. That is a good application for that hook, especially if I get break-offs (macks mostly).

This Feb, I'm coming up to fly tying and saltwater fly fishing here in Florida for 30yrs now (not to mention an additional 20yrs prior artificial spin fishing inshore here as well (3rd Gen Fla cracker here)), so I've learned a thing or two about how to take care of flies fished in the salt. ;) The bottom line is, they rust almost as fast as a bronze hook. But can still be fished a few different times until the rust starts to creep into the hook shank, even with thorough rinsing. I love the hook tho for freshwater bass fishing. :cool:

Nevertheless, remember when selecting a pack of the Gama B10S Stingers, whatever size they indicated on the packet, the hooks inside are 1 size bigger (in the gap) than a normal hook that size. So I'll buy the size smaller of the size I really need. And yes, they are sticky sharp! They work good for micro tarpon up in the brackish backwaters, but not for grown ones. ;)
 

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Fly Fishing Shaman
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Got the stingers in and I like them!! Backwater is right they are bigger than any hook in the same size. The wide gap will definitely help improve hook-ups!!
Using larger gap hooks to improve your hook-ups, doesn't necessarily improve your eats. ;)
 

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Using larger gap hooks to improve your hook-ups, doesn't necessarily improve your eats. ;)
Pray tell what species of fish looks for a skinny little pointy piece of metal sticking out of the fly's butt before deciding to eat it???

I have become a big fan of short shank, wide gap hooks whenever the pattern allows the use of a short shank. With that said, I am not a big fan of the B10 because it does have a relatively long shank. I am a big fan of the SC15 (size 2 and up) becuz it is a short shank wide gap super sticky micro barbed hook. 90 % of my saltwater flies are now tied with the SC15,,, I particularly like #1 and #2 for bones. As long as the presentation is right, I haven't seen any decline in the number of eats,, in fact,, it may even have improved with the SC15. Certainly my hook up and landing ratio is much better!!!
 

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The B10 or Mustad Neko are the best redfish hooks imho.

my flies tend to wear out from catching too many redfish way before the hook rusts. Other people may not have the problem :)
 

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The B10 or Mustad Neko are the best redfish hooks imho.

my flies tend to wear out from catching too many redfish way before the hook rusts. Other people may not have the problem :)
LOL, TX probs
 
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Fly Fishing Shaman
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Pray tell what species of fish looks for a skinny little pointy piece of metal sticking out of the fly's butt before deciding to eat it???
I can imagine no hook gap is big enough for pike (never caught one, only pickerel). But down here in the crystal clear saltwater in areas where the fish are pressured, they will eyeball the fly before eating it. A large hook sticking out of the profile of the baitfish or shrimp imitation will obviously not be normal to them and will put them on notice. It's like throwing a live bait on a hook that is bigger than needed. The bottom line is, sure you may get one to eat here and there, especially is it's a pelagic or something that doesn't care that much, like a jack or something like that. But for choice targeted gamefish, it does matter and you'll get more eats with a hard-to-detect smaller hook, rather than some obviously larger hook. Makes sense?

THIS.....
saltwater_flies_2.jpg


VS THIS!
Ted-Haas--Greenie-Greenback-fly-18-600pix.jpg
 

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Yes, the always less expensive Mustad Stinger has a smaller gap than the Gamakatsu B10S. I too don’t think a wider gap is always a good thing. I wish Gamakatsu made their bonefish hook in a size 2 and size 1. Strong, little hook with a small gap that can be mostly hidden with deer hair or whatever, but they don’t make it bigger than a size 4. Sheepshead I believe inspect patterns pretty closely and it’s nice to be able to mostly hide the hook point, harder to do with wide gap hooks.
 

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I can imagine no hook gap is big enough for pike (never caught one, only pickerel). But down here in the crystal clear saltwater in areas where the fish are pressured, they will eyeball the fly before eating it. A large hook sticking out of the profile of the baitfish or shrimp imitation will obviously not be normal to them and will put them on notice. It's like throwing a live bait on a hook that is bigger than needed. The bottom line is, sure you may get one to eat here and there, especially is it's a pelagic or something that doesn't care that much, like a jack or something like that. But for choice targeted gamefish, it does matter and you'll get more eats with a hard-to-detect smaller hook, rather than some obviously larger hook. Makes sense?

THIS.....
View attachment 113246

VS THIS!
View attachment 113248
You are right in that you can probably catch a pike on a fly tied to a gaff,,, and I certainly won't pretend to have anywhere the same saltwater experience as you do,,, but I did catch my first bonefish and tarpon in 1990 and have been fortunate enough that my life and work has allowed me for the last 15 years to have been able to spend 4 - 8 weeks per year fly fishing mostly for the glamour species of the flats,,, bones,,,, tarpon,,, and when I feel the need for self inflicted masochism,,, permit!

Gap size is relative to the hook shank,,, and certainly hook size whether wide or "regular" gap should be matched to the pattern being tied. I also think we can agree that generally a wider gap for the same size hook shank will bite back better and hold better than a smaller gap for the same sized fly.

Not all patterns lend themselves to short shank, wide gapped hooks, but a wide gapped hook point can still be hidden nicely using wider profiles such as what is shown in the Ted Haas Greenie fly pictured in your post,,, or Birdyshooter's EP baitfish in the above post.... or you can tie hook point up in a clouser,,, or gotcha,,,, or bendback style.

That said, I would consider two of the most popular tarpon hooks the Owner AKi and Gammy SL12S to be wide gapped hooks and I certainly don't see a lot of effort made to "hide the hook point" on many popular, effective tarpon flies other than maintaining the relative hook size to fly size ratio.

At the end of the day, I believe there are primarily two things that determine whether a fish will eat or not eat your fly,,, the first is happy fish eat better than alerted / nervous / spooked fish (for that angler stealth is very important). The second is the presentation of the fly including size, color and profile of the fly that should suggest something to eat or attack,,, along with the behavior of the fly which can be negatively or positively affected by things like how or what line it is attached to,,, the cast, the retrieve, the fly action in the water etc.

These are the kinds of things that concern me more than whether some of the hook point is showing or not ,,, but then again,,, we all fish better with flies we have confidence in when we tie them to our tippet,,, and I happen to have a lot of confidence in wide gap hooks like the SC 15, SL12S and Owner Aki!!!

Please forgive the verbosity,,, it is snowing here in Alberta as I write this which makes my mind yearn for warmer saltwater thoughts,,, Debating first world problems like hook gap size is a pleasant diversion while I wait out the snow storm before having to clear all the snow off my driveway!!!

Cheers and tight lines!!!
 

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I can imagine no hook gap is big enough for pike (never caught one, only pickerel). But down here in the crystal clear saltwater in areas where the fish are pressured, they will eyeball the fly before eating it. A large hook sticking out of the profile of the baitfish or shrimp imitation will obviously not be normal to them and will put them on notice. It's like throwing a live bait on a hook that is bigger than needed. The bottom line is, sure you may get one to eat here and there, especially is it's a pelagic or something that doesn't care that much, like a jack or something like that. But for choice targeted gamefish, it does matter and you'll get more eats with a hard-to-detect smaller hook, rather than some obviously larger hook. Makes sense?

THIS.....
View attachment 113246

VS THIS!
View attachment 113248
I fish for pike a lot, and you are correct, for the most part you can't have too big of a hook gap for pike (although they are surprisingly finicky at times). Pike have hard mouths and I think the B10S hooks penetrate the best, even a little better than the Owner. Just my opinion.
 

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I fish for pike a lot, and you are correct, for the most part you can't have too big of a hook gap for pike (although they are surprisingly finicky at times). Pike have hard mouths and I think the B10S hooks penetrate the best, even a little better than the Owner. Just my opinion.
You are right,,,, the B10S would make a great pike fly hook. I haven't been using them for pike flies but I will now. Thanks for the tip.
 
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