I had the unexpected pleasure of meeting Chris Morejohn in the Piranha booth at the Miami show, where he was talking about his new design. I know it has been discussed at exhausting length here already, so I won't rehash the details. It was cool to see in person, though. The plumb bow is very, very distinctive — even more so than in the drawings. The cockpit is also remarkably deep, and the volume under the forward deck is just massive. This particular boat was clearly thrown together for the show, at least from the rubrail up. Hull looked good. It will be interesting to see a more finished version.
Wow, that is a pronounced bow! I've never really ridden in a powered boat with a bow like that; I assume there would be a slight learning curve with respect to driving one in any kind of slop.
It's different for sure. I'm not sure what to think of it, but I wouldn't call it ugly. Looks kind of like a racing sailboat bow. I'm reserving my judgement (not that anyone is waiting for it) until I see it on the water. One specific thing I thought could improve the aesthetics was doing something to make the bow eye less prominent — maybe recessing it somehow? Kind of hoping I can talk Piranha into letting me shoot some pics when they get it on the water...
It’s just what people are used to. I’m sure the straight sheer lines of all current flats boats were considered hideous when they first came out too. A lot of designers still think they are. If it works and you don’t have to look at it while you’re using the boat, who cares?
"The plumb bow is designed in to add buoyancy forward when tarpon fishing in deep water in wind. I also feel it aids in polling because of the added longer waterline. ... ...BUT under power at speed in inexperienced hands, a skiff going with the wrong trim might give you a lesson in the right sea. It’s just a matter of trim. ... ...All Skiff bows are out of the water when running except when going into good chop. This skiff will eat it up in these conditions."
Like all hull features, it appears plumb bows bring both benefits and shortcomings. You have to learn how to work with them. Based on the Mr. Morejohn's words, if you plow the bow of this hull in a stern quartering sea, you might regret it.
Reminds me of learning to drive my old catamaran. The ride was nothing short of amazing in certain conditions, but there was definitely a learning curve.
I had the unexpected pleasure of meeting Chris Morejohn in the Piranha booth at the Miami show, where he was talking about his new design. I know it has been discussed at exhausting length here already, so I won't rehash the details. It was cool to see in person, though. The plumb bow is very, very distinctive — even more so than in the drawings. The cockpit is also remarkably deep, and the volume under the forward deck is just massive. This particular boat was clearly thrown together for the show, at least from the rubrail up. Hull looked good. It will be interesting to see a more finished version. View attachment 23496
Zthomas,
Nice to meet you. How did you make me look so thin in the photograph?
The show was fun watching all the looks at this new designs bow. The owner of Piranha Boatworks and his crew are great people. They are new to the flats Skiff market but not to building boats. Mike Held the owner asked for my current thinking of what would be a good flats Skiff for today. This is my vision.
The plumb bow .... that is a perpendicular stem line has been used in many different types of rowing, paddling, big and small power vessels and of course sail boats for over a century. It’s not new. What is new is how the rest of the Skiff is designed along with it.
In today’s sailing world and in the in crowd of cutting edge performance power boats this bow is the norm. My design has incorporated it for Reserve bouancy when fishing on the bow in big chop. This bow will not dig in because it is very full forward. When and if running in big seas, say 4-6’ down wind or at an angle all you have do do is trim your engine up a bit if needed. That’s the cool thing about outboard skiffs, you can do this if you have sea sense. In a sailboat it’s different as you are being pushed along by the wind. These bows are just fantastic in a sea. Really stops the pitching you get with over hanging bows. I have stretched my past bows as far forward as I could with my past clients, and partners. Mike gave me free reign.
Now does she look like A normal Skiff of today? I sure as hell hope not. This is a design for total practical use first and not looking cool in flat lake water, and on a trailer last.
In a few days I will have videos of her running along and all the usual stuff for the Skiff world to see.
The plumb bow .... that is a perpendicular stem line has been used in many different types of rowing, paddling, big and small power vessels and of course sail boats for over a century. It’s not new. What is new is how the rest of the Skiff is designed along with it.
In today’s sailing world and in the in crowd of cutting edge performance power boats this bow is the norm. My design has incorporated it for Reserve bouancy when fishing on the bow in big chop. This bow will not dig in because it is very full forward. When and if running in big seas, say 4-6’ down wind or at an angle all you have do do is trim your engine up a bit if needed. That’s the cool thing about outboard skiffs, you can do this if you have sea sense. In a sailboat it’s different as you are being pushed along by the wind. These bows are just fantastic in a sea. Really stops the pitching you get with over hanging bows. I have stretched my past bows as far forward as I could with my past clients, and partners. Mike gave me free reign.
Now does she look like A normal Skiff of today? I sure as hell hope not. This is a design for total practical use first and not looking cool in flat lake water, and on a trailer last.
In a few days I will have videos of her running along and all the usual stuff for the Skiff world to see.
I reckon my question is this: given that we know the plumb bow adds buoyancy and presumably aids in tracking, and 99.9% of flats boats are fished from the bow and poled, why aren't all boats incorporating this design? What are the negatives of a plumb bow? I'm just trying to learn something here....
I like it Chris. I’ve often wondered why so many 18’ skiffs end up having a 14’ waterline due to the bow design. Seems that would really handicap the way they track when poling and row. Very few people row anymore in FL, but I really enjoy it, and it is surprisingly efficient.
Exactly! They were full and not as refined as what I am aiming for in at rest and slow speed use now.
As for pole positions question. If looking for today’s needs for optimal performance with out the need for old school classic looks then to me as long a waterline is best for craft that people need to pole along.
White water kayaks are not fun for long flat water paddleing. Great for rough water.
For today’s needs of more stuff this is the direction I will be heading in design for clients that want function over looks.
Remember, all my HB designs are almost 20years old. Nothing really new there. Most all the other Skiff designs out there today are rehashes of older designs. My currentdesigns of the past few years have refinements to hull shapes to hopefully make them a better all round Skiff.
I do have a client now that wants a totally great looking fast Skiff that will go 50 mph with 3 big guys. This Skiff will give up slow speed at rest quality’s for these needs. Seen soon here, but it will be built and sold in Abu Dhabi for the fly fishing Permit fishing market that is there.
My boat has a plumb bow like this.
It does several things that the traditional bow does not.
1. Bow steers like crazy when running downwind if there is a bigger than expected wave and you don't have time to get off the throttle/trim up. Always wear the kill switch. Chris' design probably runs better than mine, just saying what mine does.
2. Makes the planing surface longer so the boat requires less HP.
3. Adds serious bouancy to the bow and reduces draft. (my main reason for this design) Its easy to have 2 people on the bow without losing draft.
4. Gets the bow spray way farther forward and keeps you a little dryer.
5. Extra buoyancy helps keep the bow from scooping up water when anchored in rougher water. (Tarpon fishing)
My boat has a plumb bow like this.
It does several things that the traditional bow does not.
1. Bow steers like crazy when running downwind if there is a bigger than expected wave and you don't have time to get off the throttle/trim up. Always wear the kill switch. Chris' design probably runs better than mine, just saying what mine does.
2. Makes the planing surface longer so the boat requires less HP.
3. Adds serious bouancy to the bow and reduces draft. (my main reason for this design) Its easy to have 2 people on the bow without losing draft.
4. Gets the bow spray way farther forward and keeps you a little dryer.
5. Extra buoyancy helps keep the bow from scooping up water when anchored in rougher water. (Tarpon fishing)
Did I see a build thread on this a few years ago? If so, is there any deadrise and what are the widths on the bottom? Just curious as I am about to splash my build.
I was only speaking in broad generalities regarding why plumb bows are not more common. I know nothing about your hull's performance. I should have used the term "secondary stability" instead of "reserve buoyancy" regarding slab-sided hulls. I changed it.
Many thanks to Chris, WhiteDog, etal for their responses---it has been very informative. Everything always seem to come back that there are trade-offs for every design feature one incorporates, and it is up to the owner to decide which is best for him/her.
I reckon my real question in the original post is for Chris: why wouldn't you put a plumb bow on the Slippery Dick? ( FWIW, I'm really looking forward to the plans, especially in ply ). Thanks in advance...
Here is today’s pictures of the PIRANHA RASO 180 running. Raso is the Portuguese word for shallow.
The deck, console, tower were all thrown on the hull for the show. They are now working on all the plugs and molds as per my design.
I will be sailing off to the Bahamas in the morning so this is all I know as of today.
They put 10 gals gas in the tank. There is nothing else in the boat. The 115 is on a jack plate but I did not design the boat to need one. George the shop foreman and the owner are big boys. The deck must weigh a ton.
They said the prop was not right. Top rpm was 5000 and they were doing 45 mph.
They said she was easy to trim bow up or down. Did not need the tabs to get on plane. Was super stable at rest with their size walking about. 240 lbs 6’3”.
All wash was aft of aft seat. You can see there is no water going up the sides.
I am supposed to get more pics at rest and videos by the morning before I up anchor.
So another Skiff hits the water to give us all something to talk about.
Here are a couple more pictures from yesterday that I received of the Raso 180. I don’t know how to post videos here so I will on my Instagram site Nader my name.
I am happy with how she looks riding as it shows a very clean spray exit and lots of trim.
Have a great day
I am with Piranha Boatworks. We have been working with Chris for almost a year now as we formulated our design criteria for our new skiff. He has been fantastic to work with and as all of you can attest, he has an immense amount of knowledge when it comes to hydrodynamics and hull design.
We pulled the first hull from the mold about a month ago. Then we frantically pieced a deck together so we could bring the boat to the Miami show. Chris spent the full 5 day show at our booth. He met and spoke with with friends, followers of his writings and posts, and a litany of who's who in the boat building and fishing guide business. He explained the design to so many people that stopped by. That along with the great stories he told throughout our time together and it will go down as one of the highlights of my life.
We are very excited about the new skiff and were extremely pleased with the performance from yesterdays initial sea trials. We have begun working on a new deck mold and other parts for the the new Raso P180 skiff. We hope to be in full production by mid to late May. We will be providing updates to Chris for his analysis and posts for your consideration.
Just a whacko observation... I read a lot about "keeping your hands on the wheel and the throttle " in difficult seas. In the bass-boat world, that I also don't know too much about...they have something called a Hot-Foot throttle control. It seems to this old codger that, if you could control the speed with your foot i.e. Hot Foot, you could keep two hands on the wheel. Does that make any sense?
I ride in my buddy's Sterling bass boat all the time. He's got the hot foot and it's very necessary.
At or near his top speed of 85mph, the boat will chine walk. Basically the boat will tip slightly left, right, left, right, etc... You need two hands to counter steer it.
The boat corners like a Ferrari even running at speed
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