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Lithium Ion Batteries

7K views 41 replies 18 participants last post by  Cam 
#1 ·
I have typically found LiFePO4 batteries to be cost prohibitive as a drop in for lead acid batteries despite some pretty strong advantages. I recently found this company and asked them for the appropriate application for both a starting and trolling battery for my skiff. They are still at least 2x what a quality SLA/AGM such as an Optima Blue Top and 5x what a cheap Everstart battery would cost, but based on the expected life and weight savings I think these might be a reasonable alternative.

Has anyone used these in real life?


For the starting battery, you would use this one, which provides 1250 CCA
https://www.bioennopower.com/collec...-1250-cca-lfp-starter-battery-abs-blp-121250m
For the deep cycle battery, you would use this one for the trolling motor:
https://www.bioennopower.com/collec.../products/12v-60ah-lfp-battery-abs-blf-1260as
The conversion is easy. The 12V, 60Ah LiFePO4 battery is equivalent to 12V, 120Ah in a SLA/AGM battery in terms of run-time, but the battery will be 1/3 the weight and offer 2,000+ charge cycles.
-Kevin
 
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#2 ·
I have typically found LiFePO4 batteries to be cost prohibitive as a drop in for lead acid batteries despite some pretty strong advantages. I recently found this company and asked them for the appropriate application for both a starting and trolling battery for my skiff. They are still at least 2x what a quality SLA/AGM such as an Optima Blue Top and 5x what a cheap Everstart battery would cost, but based on the expected life and weight savings I think these might be a reasonable alternative.

Has anyone used these in real life?


For the starting battery, you would use this one, which provides 1250 CCA
https://www.bioennopower.com/collec...-1250-cca-lfp-starter-battery-abs-blp-121250m
For the deep cycle battery, you would use this one for the trolling motor:
https://www.bioennopower.com/collec.../products/12v-60ah-lfp-battery-abs-blf-1260as
The conversion is easy. The 12V, 60Ah LiFePO4 battery is equivalent to 12V, 120Ah in a SLA/AGM battery in terms of run-time, but the battery will be 1/3 the weight and offer 2,000+ charge cycles.
-Kevin
Why would the amp hours be equivalent if they are listed as half??
 
#3 · (Edited)
From what I have read...and I'm not an expert nor do I have anything to do with selling batteries...Because they can effectively be discharged 80-100% while still providing consistent voltage above 10.5v while a SLA battery can only be discharged up to 50% before becoming ineffective and providing less than 10.5v

So under identical conditions, LiFePO4 would run 1.6 to 2.0 times longer than the same ah rated SLA battery
 
#14 ·
I didn't look at their website very long but my first glance seems to indicate that they dont make multi bank charging stations? So you have to have three chargers (and a place to mount them) if you have a cranking battery and two for the TM. Did I miss something?
 
#17 ·
You would be correct. Each one of the batteries is controlled by it's own PCM, this is partly why they are able to achieve high amp hour rating from a small battery. Current draw isn't linear so the PCM helps keep the battery from getting discharged past a preset level. I can't really comment on this particular company but usually when a battery gets low, things start slowing down, but with the PCM they just hard stop at a certain point. They aren't great for trolling motor applications for this very reason. You can limp off a flat with a low battery or maybe get one more start, but you're not doing anything once that PCM decides the battery is below optimal performance levels.
 
#26 ·
I saw a new HB Marquesa with two ReLion 50AH batteries up front for TM batteries and one on board charger last week. Can't remember the make of the charger, and Google doesn't seem to find it either. They told me cost was $600 per battery. Didn't ask about charger. Battery cost is over three times what I paid for Odyssey PC1200's at 4 Wheel Parts on Hwy 50 in Orlando last year. Paying $800 to cut 40# is probably cheaper per pound than an upcharge for Kevlar.

Finding a two stage charger that goes straight from flood to trickle without an absorption stage is the challenge.

I'm afraid of charging issues for starting battery applications. Even some AGM's that have low resistance will let voltages go over 15 on engines without voltage regulation.

Finding a good marine grade charger is the real issue for me.
 
#29 ·
I think some of you are not realizing lithium batteries come in 12, 24 and 36 volt units IN ONE BATTERY. They also make them with a 12v reserve just in case something happens to your cranking battery you can flip a switch and crank your outboard. Mine has a pull rope but bigger outboards don’t.
 
#30 ·
Charging 5x faster means it can charge on the run. You can use it for all of Tarpon w/o charging if you make long runs. They also last 10 years vs 3 with the pc1200, which you need two of to equal the single 24v. Its better in every way other than cost. For me its an easy decision. I dont waste money on booze, etc. and am pretty cheap in the rest of my life. Not flyfishing. I was looking for the best and there is really no argument that this isnt.
 
#31 ·
And to answer your question, you end up with one 36v battery (if you have three now). I have one 24v for the TM (tarpon season). My cranking is a PC1200 because it was only a few months old when I moved to Lithium so I left it. So my onboard charges everything off the alternator. If you are doing all Lithium, you would get a different one. Mine handles both.
 
#32 ·
You can buy single cell 24 volt batteries if you want. I would assume that the charging capacity probably will exceed the output of most outboards though. Even a standard flooded lead acid battery is capable of taking 20+ amps and if you have a bank of 2 or 3 of them then you need even more amperage from your stator/alternator/rectifier to charge them. Furthermore, most outboards rate their charging capacity in amps at wide open throttle. The amount of charging amps at idle or lower speeds is usually kind of a joke, usually somewhere around 5-10 amps. I would think these lithium batteries would be pretty thirsty for amperage but honestly don't know in that regard. I think regardless of what battery you have an onboard charger is necessary unless you make very long runs to where you fish or you just don't run the trolling motor or accessories very much.
 
#36 ·
Man I read through this whole thread, I have a headache. I have an Interstate battery to crank the motor. Then 2 interstates to run my 24v trolling motor, GPS, depth finder, lights etc.
I don't think about amps or hours I charge them they work then I charge then again
I saved some weight by going to a 21 gal. Gas tank rather than the 35. But I really don't think about weight that much except when I pole the beast
 
#40 ·
Li-ion batteries will cost thousands more than lead acid, will save inconsequential weight and even with careful use and optimal charging voltage, Li-ion batteries will begin to fail after 250 to 400 charge cycles and there is a well documented fire hazard.

If your goal is to catch fish, probably better to spend that money on an exotic vacation or a good guide.
 
#41 ·
Some people hate change and some buy in too fast. The future will certainly be different. Pay to play now when costs are high and the tech may not be quit ready or wait for the price to come down and the tech to be solid. My Optimas aren't broken but I can't wait to loose the weight and go Li someday:)
 
#42 ·
This. Add in the inherent dangers of their charging circuits misfiring and the batteries themselves being highly combustible we just aren't there yet in terms of cost effectiveness to produce an ultra safe/durable battery in this size. If you got 5k laying around and can buy high end over-engineered designs, sure. Until then, going with proven simple Lead Acid for $100 or AGM at $200 each is a pretty easy choice.
 
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